Can expansion be due to large-scale curvature?

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    Curvature Expansion
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether large-scale curvature can account for the observed expansion of the universe. Participants explore the relationship between curvature and the movement of galaxies, considering implications for cosmological observations and theoretical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if large-scale curvature alone can cause the universe's expansion and suggests that galaxies moving away might be a result of curved space.
  • Another participant argues that expansion is not directly due to curvature but rather the behavior of curvature over time, requiring additional driving forces for accelerated expansion.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that the expansion of space is accurately described as space-time curvature, distinguishing it from spatial curvature, which is nearly zero in the observable universe.
  • A later reply acknowledges a correction regarding the relationship between expansion and curvature, indicating some confusion in earlier statements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of curvature in cosmic expansion, with no consensus reached on whether large-scale curvature alone can account for the observed phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as homogeneity, isotropy, and the implications of COBE data, but the discussion does not resolve the mathematical or theoretical details surrounding these ideas.

claycravens
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I wanted to say I love the posts on this Cosmology forum - very good reads.

My question is whether there is enough to large-scale curvature alone to cause the expansion of the universe as we measure it? Why can't galaxies accelerating away from us be moving in curved space?

I agree with the idea of infinite matter-energy density at some time in the past and also with inflation. I believe I understand homogeneity and isotropy.

The question in part is whether large-scale curvature satisfactory to move galaxies in ever increasing velocities with further distances would be consistent with observations like COBE data and also would it be symmetrical.

Clay Cravens
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Expansion isn't due to 'curvature', per se. Curvature is defined at a point (or region) of spacetime, while expansion is the behavior of curvature over time---the 'velocity' of the curvature, if you will.
Accelerated expansion is a level further away from curvature itself, its like the 'acceleration' of the curvature (again, a loose metaphor) and requires a driving force beyond the curvature itself.
But galaxies certainly are moving in curved space.
 
zhermes said:
Expansion isn't due to 'curvature', per se. Curvature is defined at a point (or region) of spacetime, while expansion is the behavior of curvature over time---the 'velocity' of the curvature, if you will.
Accelerated expansion is a level further away from curvature itself, its like the 'acceleration' of the curvature (again, a loose metaphor) and requires a driving force beyond the curvature itself.
But galaxies certainly are moving in curved space.
Actually, it's entirely the other way around. The expansion of space is quite precisely and accurately described as space-time curvature. It is not, however, spatial curvature. The spatial curvature of our observable universe is very close to zero. But it does have space-time curvature, and that manifests itself as expansion.
 
Yeah, @Chalnoth is definitely correct; not sure what I was thinking on that one...
 

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