Can improper integrals converge without absolute convergence?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter alyafey22
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Comparison Integrals
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence of improper integrals and the conditions under which they may converge without absolute convergence. Participants explore the implications of the triangle inequality in the context of integrals and the nuances of improper integrals, particularly when singularities are present.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the proof of the inequality $$ \big | \int^{b}_{a} f(t) \, dt \big | \leq \int^{b}_{a} |f(t)|\, dt$$ and the conditions under which it holds.
  • There is a discussion on whether the inequality applies to improper integrals, with some suggesting that it is more complex in such cases.
  • One participant notes that if $f(x)$ is integrable on $[a,b]$, then $|f(x)|$ is also integrable, leading to the conclusion that $$- \int_{a}^{b} |f(x)| \ dx \le \int_{a}^{b} f(x) \ dx \le \int_{a}^{b} |f(x)| \ dx$$ holds.
  • Another participant provides an example of an improper integral, $$\int_{0}^{1} \frac{\sin \frac {1}{t}}{t}\ dt$$, to illustrate a case where the integral converges while the integral of its absolute value diverges.
  • It is mentioned that the situation is analogous to absolute convergence in series, where an absolutely convergent integral is convergent, but an "absolutely divergent" integral may or may not converge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of the inequality to improper integrals, and there is no consensus on the conditions under which convergence without absolute convergence occurs.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of improper integrals, particularly in relation to singularities and the behavior of integrals of functions and their absolute values. Specific assumptions about the integrability of functions are not fully resolved.

alyafey22
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
2
I know we have the following

$$ \big | \int^{b}_{a} f(t) \, dt \big | \leq \int^{b}_{a} |f(t)|\, dt$$

1- How to prove the inequality ,what are the conditions ?
2- Does it work for improper integrals ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ZaidAlyafey said:
I know we have the following

$$ \big | \int^{b}_{a} f(t) \, dt \big | \leq \int^{b}_{a} |f(t)|\, dt$$

1- How to prove the inequality ,what are the conditions ?

If f(*) is Riemann integrable on (a,b) then the integral is... $$\int_{a}^{b} f(t)\ dt = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty\ , \text{max} \Delta t_{i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{i=0}^{n-1} f(t_{i})\ \Delta t_{i}\ (1)$$

For any finite sum is...

$$ |\sum_{i=0}^{n-1} a_{i}| \le \sum_{i=0}^{n-1} |a_{i}|\ (2)$$

... and that proves the item 1...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
$$ |\sum_{i=0}^{n-1} a_{i}| \le \sum_{i=0}^{n-1} |a_{i}|\ (2)$$

That is the triangle inequality on the elements of the sequence , right ?
 
ZaidAlyafey said:
That is the triangle inequality on the elements of the sequence , right ?

The so called 'triangle inequality' holds in general for vectors or complex numbers and extablishes that...

$$ |\sum_{i=1}^{n} a_{i}| \le \sum_{i=1}^{n} |a_{i}|\ (1) $$

See here...

Triangle Inequality -- from Wolfram MathWorld

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
And since the metric $d(x,y)=|x-y|$ is uniformly continuous, you are justified in passing to the limit for the integral.
 
Here's how I remember the outline of the proof.

If $f(x)$ and $g(x)$ are integrable on $[a,b]$ (by which I mean Riemann integrable) and $f(x) \le g(x)$ for all $x \in [a,b]$, then $\int_{a}^{b} f(x) \ dx \le \int_{a}^{b} g(x) \ dx$.

Now if $f(x)$ is integrable on $[a,b]$, so is $|f(x)|$.

And $-|f(x)| \le f(x) \le |f(x)|$ for all $ x \in [a,b]$.

So $- \int_{a}^{b} |f(x)| \ dx \le \int_{a}^{b} f(x) \ dx \le \int_{a}^{b} |f(x)| \ dx $.
 
ZaidAlyafey said:
I know we have the following

$$ \big | \int^{b}_{a} f(t) \, dt \big | \leq \int^{b}_{a} |f(t)|\, dt$$

1- How to prove the inequality ,what are the conditions ?
2- Does it work for improper integrals ?

The answer to point 2 is slighly more complex. If we consider an improper integral in (a,b) where a is a singularity of f(*), then we intend...

$$\int_{a}^{b} f(t)\ dt = \lim_{x \rightarrow a+} \int_{x}^{b} f(t)\ dt\ (1)$$

The problem in such a case is that in can be that $\int_{a}^{b} f(t)\ dt$ converges and $\int_{a}^{b} |f(t)|\ dt$ diverges. An interesting example of such a case is...

$$\int_{0}^{1} \frac{\sin \frac {1}{t}}{t}\ dt\ (2)$$

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
The answer to point 2 is slighly more complex. If we consider an improper integral in (a,b) where a is a singularity of f(*), then we intend...

$$\int_{a}^{b} f(t)\ dt = \lim_{x \rightarrow a+} \int_{x}^{b} f(t)\ dt\ (1)$$

The problem in such a case is that in can be that $\int_{a}^{b} f(t)\ dt$ converges and $\int_{a}^{b} |f(t)|\ dt$ diverges. An interesting example of such a case is...

$$\int_{0}^{1} \frac{\sin \frac {1}{t}}{t}\ dt\ (2)$$

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

This is just like absolute convergence in series . If the integral absolutely convergent then it is convergent . If it is ''absolutely divergent" then the integral may or may not converge.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K