News Can Internet Blacklists Be Stopped?

[nismaratwork]

I would have to disagree with some of your points. I doubt that the fact that physical availability is not reduced plays much of a part in the thinking of intellectual property thieves. Most do not consider themselves to be thieves -- it is just something offered to them, and they take advantage of that because everyone else does. And you don't need to make physical copies of money. Most money is digital, just 1's and 0's on a computer like a lot of music. And digital money gets stolen, also.

But everyone is aware that counterfeiting money is a crime. I would argue that most people sharing their music, or downloading for free, don't consider it to be a crime. People don't like to think of themselves as criminals. So I think that educating people on that aspect is helpful, and while laws won't necessarily stop the practice, they do make it clear to some people that they are performing illegal acts.

I hope you are wrong that everyone would steal a car if it was easy to do and somewhat punishment-free. And I am not sure what your point is. You seem to make the argument that since we cannot stop all theft, it is pointless to try to stop any of it. You are correct however that the industry will have to find ways to adapt.

Oh hell, I had a long and really good response to this, which I then lost thanks to my browser. Let me boil it down to this:

Steal a car and it's gone... you can move them around, but you can't magically create more cars.
If you could however... then I think many people when given the choice to:
1.) Buy a car the way we do now
2.) Press a button and a car appears in your driveway that is indistinguishable from the one in example #1. In doing this, you also haven't reduced the number of cars the dealership has.

To understand why that was theft requires that the pirate understand and care enough that he's essentially counterfeiting, as you say. The thing is, a car is a big piece of SOMETHING, which we can watch being made with materials and techniques that cost money. Software, Books, Music, Movies... they're not so easy. There's time put in, and personal effort which is harder for (especially young) people to grasp. In the case of cars, you'd eventually kill BMW's primary motivation for making cars, and in the case of music, they should realize, the same is true.

The thing is that throughout history art and music, performance and such were often patronized or sponsored, but not a source of great wealth. How much profit should be made per song?... I don't know, and I think stealing is wrong! It's a tough question. I'm getting deluged right now so I'll try and remember some of what I typed later.

 

[Proton Soup]

No MS, no Google, No Apple, No Sony = HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

but Teamsters and Firefighters. something goofy is going on.

 

[Evo]

but Teamsters and Firefighters. something goofy is going on.

Unions cover each other, whether it makes sense or not. That's what is so scary.

 

[nismaratwork]

but Teamsters and Firefighters. something goofy is going on.

Yeah, Evo is right on this one. It is... incredibly odd though. The mentality of unions today is so divorced from the reality of their original purpose that it's just pathetic.

 

[WhoWee]

Yeah, Evo is right on this one. It is... incredibly odd though. The mentality of unions today is so divorced from the reality of their original purpose that it's just pathetic.

That sounds like a good thread topic - the evolution of unions...

 

[nismaratwork]

That sounds like a good thread topic - the evolution of unions...

I'd be in for that. It's shocking how quickly something that liberated a workforce was perverted, invaded by a criminal element, then finally settling into just another interest.

 

[Galteeth]

Three things:

1. While the profitability of the traditional music business has no doubt declined, the production and availability of music has dramatically increased. The main expense with music was traditionally distribution, which is now basically free. The result is an explosion of "independent music" with a major decline in the sales of mainstream music. The model has fundamentally changed. Even if record companies were successful in preventing the illegal distribution of music, there is no shortage of bands who will "give it away for free." In my mind it is unlikely that the quality difference is such (especially with stuff like pro-tools freely available now) that people would resume paying for music in large numbers (I'm talking about mostly young people here.) What's popular now is more niche and locally based, as opposed to what's on the radio. For sure, people still listen to mainstream radio and base their preferences off of it, but these are mostly casual music fans.

2. A blacklist, like the Australian one, if created will only further the digital divide. It might have SOME effect, since some people won't be bothered to go through proxies. But proxy routing for most will just become more common, and more sophisticated. The Australian example also shows how easily such blacklists are abused, and while this won't be a problem for the technologically literate, it will as I said, further the digital divide.

3. What the government has been doing under COICA is seizing domain names. Since the site hoster can just switch to a non-US controlled domain name, this only stops very lazy people. The COICA thing was passed, but I haven't heard of a "blacklist." Anyone with specifics?

 

[alt]

Just on the matter as to whether Wikileaks is blocked in Australia - just tried it;

http://www.wikileaks.com/

Wow ! Indeed, I get "Sorry, this site is not currently available"

Plenty of mirror sites though, at;

http://wikileaks.info/

There seems to be no blocking there.

 

[alt]

Just on the matter as to whether Wikileaks is blocked in Australia - just tried it;

http://www.wikileaks.com/

Wow ! Indeed, I get "Sorry, this site is not currently available"

Plenty of mirror sites though, at;

http://wikileaks.info/

There seems to be no blocking there.

PS - does anyone know WHY it's blocked in Australia ?

 

[nismaratwork]

PS - does anyone know WHY it's blocked in Australia ?

Not a clue... although I find it odd. Thanks for making my point about blacklists though. I forgot that these days you can use server-side proxy and DNS plays instead of personal proxies.

 

[ThomasT]

The list of supporters has increased. Here is the current list of organizations backing the blacklist.

International Brotherhood of Teamsters
International Association of Fire Fighters
Property Rights Alliance
Motion Picture Association of America
Association of American Publishers
NBC Universal
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
Entertainment Software Association
Merck
Coalition Against Domain Name Abuse
Johnson and Johnson
Xerox Corporation
Building & Construction Trades Department
US Chamber of Commerce
Screen Actors Guild
Viacom
International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Moving Picture Technicians, Artists and Allied Crafts of the United States
Warner Music Group
Tiffany & Co
Major League Baseball
Fortune Brands
Nike Inc
Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers, and Grain Millers International Union
Communication Workers of America

That's an interesting list of supporters. If it does pass then I agree that there will be workarounds. Anyway, I signed the petition -- we've got enough questionable laws already.

 

[Evo]

PS - does anyone know WHY it's blocked in Australia ?

They leaked information embarrassing to the Australian government, so Australia blacklisted them.

 

[Proton Soup]

i just tried org, and it is actually redirecting to info now

 

[nismaratwork]

i just tried org, and it is actually redirecting to info now

Wow... that's one hell of a firewall AU is sporting huh?