Can Martial Artists Sense Danger Before It Happens?

[Happeh]

Let's assume that these powers are real for a moment. If they don't work on people who can fight, a street brawler or a trained fighter for example, what's the use of them? To kill old ladies that cut you off in a line?

To give someone like Bill Clinton a heart attack.

Wasn't it convenient Clinton had a heart episode requiring surgery right at the end of the campaign so he could not stump for Kerry? If Clinton had continued campaigning for Kerry, Bush would have lost.

To control people. If you anger me and I get upset, I make you sick until you apologize.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To protect my family. Let's say some very angry man is approaching my son. I do not know the man's intentions but I can tell he is very angry almost to the point of violence. I can take control of the man and make him go away.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To get people to have sex with me. Did you see the second Matrix? You know that incredbily tedious sequence with the...Watchmaker? when he was giving that girl in the restaurant an orgasm? That is possible. The women don't know what it is, they just know they feel good when they are around you. Works the other way too. Women doing it to men. The men don't know why, they just love being around that woman.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To sell people things. They come to my store looking. I control them so they buy something expensive.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

In all the above examples, I am saying me and I for ease. I can't do none of that. ;0

 

[Happeh]

That is quite off the map. Statements like that go through my "critical analysis machine" right away. I would be more than happy to see any kind of NON-ANECDOTAL evidence that this, or anything else you have said, is possible.

Yes, first impressions are important. You give the impression of a person who has read or heard stories regarding these concepts and taken them too seriously. This is exactly the kind of stuff that floats around out there that gives martial arts a bad name.

It may be off the map but that is no reason to say in front of everyone "you are in la la land". People kick me, I kick them back.

I would say that you are a person living in a false reality. I would guess you have little actual experience in the martial arts. If you do have experience in the martial arts, I would guess your instructors were not talented.

I do know what I am talking about and what I said about these abilities is accurate.

Proof huh? I bet you have already seen the proof. You just don't recognize it. The proof is around you every day. Are you married? If you observed your wife carefully, your interactions with her and your reactions to her, I bet you would find some corroborative proof. As you can see by the examples in the other post, the power is much more useful than something as wasteful as killing someone.

 

[Daminc]

Just a few points. I first started MA when I was 8. I'm now 34. Most of the MA experience has been with Karate (Wado Ryu & Shotokan) which is basically non-combative. However, we get taught basic Akido in the Army (British) and I was also in RCoS Army Judo team. I've also briefly touched upon Ninjitsu and Jeet Kun Do.

There is a nerve point above and to the left of the heart that can cause it to 'stammer' briefly. This can be dangerous to someone with a weak heart but it is usually used to temperarily weaken a person (try pressing the point with two fingers it's not hard to find).

There is a nerve point underneath the jaw (by the jugular). gripping the side of the neck with 4 fingers whilst simultanously pushing upwards with your thumb on the other side of the neck can cause 3 things to happen: restrict air flow resulting in panic, restrict blood flow to the brain resulting in dizziness (ball of the thumb constricting the jugular), and finally pain caused by sharply pressing the nerve point. (I've only used this twice in a fight: once when some drunk got a bit boisterous, I didn't want to hurt him so I applied this move, his back to the wall, and he passed out very quickly and the second time a person who I knew attacked me and I used this tactic to supress him in order to find out what the trouble was.)

I've seen the theory of 'death attacks' and there is two that I know of.

1) Simultaniously striking two major nerve centres above and below the heart causing a 'short circuit' and a heart attack.

2) The base of the sternum is a nest of nerves which, if struck right, can break resulting in a rather painful death.

The ESP aspect you've been talking about is closer to instinct combat more than anything else and can be used by those that have trained to a point they don't have to think about what they are doing anymore.

Happeh, it seems that most of your examples can be explained by the use of psychology (which most good fighters should be adept at).

There are a lot more practical nerve points that are more useful. For example, the one under the cheek bone can be used to control the opponents head placement. The one between the thumb and the first finger can be used to make the hand open. The one just above the elbow (on the side closest to your body) can temperarily stun the arm etc, etc

There are many more but it isn't wise to use them unless you study, train and respect the methods.

 

[FredGarvin]

It may be off the map but that is no reason to say in front of everyone "you are in la la land". People kick me, I kick them back.

Puh-lease.

I would say that you are a person living in a false reality. I would guess you have little actual experience in the martial arts. If you do have experience in the martial arts, I would guess your instructors were not talented.

You do have a penchant for expressing your notions as fact. I especially like how you reference yourself to prove your own points.

I do know what I am talking about and what I said about these abilities is accurate.

I am getting the hint that everything you say is factual. Is this your web site?

http://www.angrypenis.org/

If so, I have a great insight into just what you "know" as being true.

Proof huh? I bet you have already seen the proof. You just don't recognize it. The proof is around you every day. Are you married? If you observed your wife carefully, your interactions with her and your reactions to her, I bet you would find some corroborative proof. As you can see by the examples in the other post, the power is much more useful than something as wasteful as killing someone.

You obviously have no idea as to what the words "proof" and "anecdotal" mean.

 

[FredGarvin]

I really don't care to put down my MA resume. But if needs be I will.

There is a nerve point above and to the left of the heart that can cause it to 'stammer' briefly. This can be dangerous to someone with a weak heart but it is usually used to temperarily weaken a person (try pressing the point with two fingers it's not hard to find).

I have seen this happen as well as a sharp blow to the sternum having the same effect. As a matter of fact, a few years ago, in the Stanley Cup playoffs, Chris Pronger (a big defenseman) got hit in the chest with a slapshot and he was out on his feet. It was pretty scary to see that happen to an athlete wearing protective gear. He was OK a bit later but was still taken to the hospital to make sure.

There is a nerve point underneath the jaw (by the jugular). gripping the side of the neck with 4 fingers whilst simultanously pushing upwards with your thumb on the other side of the neck can cause 3 things to happen: restrict air flow resulting in panic, restrict blood flow to the brain resulting in dizziness (ball of the thumb constricting the jugular), and finally pain caused by sharply pressing the nerve point.

Again, I am not arguing the value of pressure points, or chokes. I know they work. This, however is not the same as what certain posters here are saying they can do or know about.

I've seen the theory of 'death attacks' and there is two that I know of.

1) Simultaniously striking two major nerve centres above and below the heart causing a 'short circuit' and a heart attack.

2) The base of the sternum is a nest of nerves which, if struck right, can break resulting in a rather painful death.

These are like the theories that I wish to have a true person in the know, like a cardiologist or neurosurgeon take a look at in regards to feasability.

The ESP aspect you've been talking about is closer to instinct combat more than anything else and can be used by those that have trained to a point they don't have to think about what they are doing anymore.

Rich Heckler wrote a book (ISBN: 1556431163) on his experience in trying to teach awareness techniques learned in Aikido to a study group of SF soldiers. A good book and a quick read.

 

[Daminc]

This, however is not the same as what certain posters here are saying they can do or know about.

No, it's not. My post was primarily directed at Happeh. I thought that if he understood that there are people posting here with a bit of MA knowledge and are capable of making accurate desciptions of techniques then he may consent to believe we know what we're talking about.

These are like the theories that I wish to have a true person in the know, like a cardiologist or neurosurgeon take a look at in regards to feasability.

I found this:

Solar plexus

The solar plexus, also known as the celiac plexus or plexus cœliacus, is an autonomous cluster of nerve cells in the human body behind the stomach and below the diaphragm near the celiac artery in the abdominal cavity. The solar plexus consists of two ganglia, called celiac ganglia, and a nerve network connecting the two ganglia. The solar plexus controls functions of the internal organs as for example adrenal secretion and the contraction in the intestines.

A blow to the stomach, halfway between the navel and the heart may also put pressure on this nerve cluster, creating great pain.

Other similar nerve centres are the cardiac plexus near the heart, or the hypogastric plexus in front of the last lumbar vertebra.

The solar plexus is also considered a energy node according to Hinduism, called the manipura chakra.

I haven't varified any evidence for the double punch death blow though.

Rich Heckler wrote a book (ISBN: 1556431163) on his experience in trying to teach awareness techniques learned in Aikido to a study group of SF soldiers. A good book and a quick read.

I'll have a look for that book, cheers.

btw,who are SF soldiers?

 

[Happeh]

Puh-lease.

I am getting the hint that everything you say is factual. Is this your web site?

http://www.angrypenis.org/

If so, I have a great insight into just what you "know" as being true.

Can you answer a question for me? I am extremely curious as to the motivations of people who would go out in search of information on another in order to ridicule them.

One type of people I know are evil. They do it so that they can hurt me. Another type I know of are people who are angry with me for one reason or the other and are looking for a club to hit me with. Other people realize that they cannot counter me in a verbal discussion, so they try misdirection. They try to distract peoples attention by pointing at something else way over there so people forget the conversation at hand.

I am guessing that you are the "How dare he so authoritatively show that I am wrong" type. You are angry and wishing to gain revenge.

Yes that is my site. I imagine that you and many people here will find it lacking. I also imagine that is because you you are so certain of your superiority that you refuse to believe that there is anything to learn from any type of discussion that does not match the discussion methods taught to you at school. If it is not written up to the standards of a professional report with expert attributions, then it is worthless.

You know. I have had this happen so many times. Some person sneaking around and bringing back "the dirt" on me. I still feel sick when it happens. Not as sick as I did the first time it happened. The impact is slowly reducing. In my mind, I can see no other motivation for this kind of action other than hurt. I don't care that you hurt me. I am disappointed that people are like that.

 

[Happeh]

No, it's not. My post was primarily directed at Happeh. I thought that if he understood that there are people posting here with a bit of MA knowledge and are capable of making accurate desciptions of techniques then he may consent to believe we know what we're talking about.

What I am talking about has nothing to do with Dim Mak points. I am talking about exactly what I say I am talking about.

If you have MA experience makes no difference to me. You say this as if I am a con man who, when faced with reality, will recant. Not a chance. I know exactly what I am talking about. I am right and the both of you are wrong.

Really guys. How do you expect me to treat you if not with a slight bit of contempt? Fred has hunted down my personal site in an attempt to ridicule me. Neither of you is correct in the matter under discussion.

Fred completely ignored my comment about a possible wife. If I was full of baloney, why did I bring that up? An intelligent person would wonder, "If he can bring up the wife example, is there some other examples he can bring up"? Once they got that far, they might thing "If he has all those examples, could there be something to what he is talking about"?

If you would consider for even a small moment what I have said, the most obvious and everyday occurrence in the world should make you consider what I say is reality. What does a person with a dog do when they ask the dog to shake hands? The person makes the shaking hand motion right? Instead of the dog being trained to shake hands, what if the human being is controlling the dog to lift it's leg? Both creatures have 4 limbs. The arm would be equivalent to the dog forelimb. Alternatively, the dog could be sensitive enough to sense the lifting of the humans arm and lift his leg. The human being does not have to consciously think "I am going to control the dogs leg to move it up in a shaking motion".

I just had an epiphany. I know what the problem is. Professional men cannot afford to engage in speculative conversation. The conversation could be used to ridicule them professionally in the way Fred has used my website to ridicule me.

I wonder if that means I can never get a professional person to hear me out? That would be sad. I think they need me more than other people do. What I have to say brings them back from being mechanistic to being more human which is healthier for them. Have you ever read messages over in Biology? I just visited there today. My first impression was the difference in atmosphere. It seemed more relaxed, less rigid, more kindly, less adversarial. IMHO, that is healthier than the rigid atmosphere of the physics or other hard science forums.

 

[FredGarvin]

It's your web site. I was just asking. I felt it gave me insight into who was providing all of this knowledge. If you think I can ridicule you for your web site, then maybe you should think about what it is that you are saying.

If the burden of proof is what you call rigid, then yup. I'm rigid.

I am guessing that you are the "How dare he so authoritatively show that I am wrong" type. You are angry and wishing to gain revenge.

No. I am a person that is wondering how some people can simply tell other people they are wrong and then back that up with "because I said so" type of statements.

My post was primarily directed at Happeh. I thought that if he understood that there are people posting here with a bit of MA knowledge and are capable of making accurate desciptions of techniques then he may consent to believe we know what we're talking about.

Ah. No prob. I misread what you were saying. My bad. BTW, SF = Special Forces.

 

[Daminc]

If you have MA experience makes no difference to me. You say this as if I am a con man who, when faced with reality, will recant. Not a chance. I know exactly what I am talking about. I am right and the both of you are wrong.

How am I wrong?

The women don't know what it is, they just know they feel good when they are around you. Works the other way too. Women doing it to men. The men don't know why, they just love being around that woman.

To sell people things. They come to my store looking. I control them so they buy something expensive.

These sort of things can be explained by the application of pyschology. I've done them myself. Why would you try and 'mystify' it?

If you would consider for even a small moment what I have said, the most obvious and everyday occurrence in the world should make you consider what I say is reality.

Ok, I suspend my disbelief for a moment. Why do you think you're right? Has anything happened that could not be explained by any other conventional method? Are there others who could varify anything you suggest? Would you consider the possibility that you are wrong?

 

[FredGarvin]

I would like to get back to this post (emphasism mine):

The advanced guys don't even have to do that. They can kill someone without touching them.

You know how Darth Vader choked that guy out in the first Star War movies? Vader made that choking motion with his hands and the guy started choking? That is real. People can really do that.

The martial arts guy just reaches into the other guys body and stops his heart.

Originally I thought you were joking. These are the kinds of statements that I question...

 

[Happeh]

How am I wrong?

You are wrong in thinking that I am a con man who is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Or that I am a mistaken person about my claims.

Ok, I suspend my disbelief for a moment. Why do you think you're right? Has anything happened that could not be explained by any other conventional method? Are there others who could varify anything you suggest? Would you consider the possibility that you are wrong?

I know that I left a list of incidents for people to read. After each one I clearly wrote "This is true".

"To give someone like Bill Clinton a heart attack.

Wasn't it convenient Clinton had a heart episode requiring surgery right at the end of the campaign so he could not stump for Kerry? If Clinton had continued campaigning for Kerry, Bush would have lost.

To control people. If you anger me and I get upset, I make you sick until you apologize.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To protect my family. Let's say some very angry man is approaching my son. I do not know the man's intentions but I can tell he is very angry almost to the point of violence. I can take control of the man and make him go away.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To get people to have sex with me. Did you see the second Matrix? You know that incredbily tedious sequence with the...Watchmaker? when he was giving that girl in the restaurant an orgasm? That is possible. The women don't know what it is, they just know they feel good when they are around you. Works the other way too. Women doing it to men. The men don't know why, they just love being around that woman.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent.

To sell people things. They come to my store looking. I control them so they buy something expensive.

True story. Names changed to protect the innocent."

Are there others who could varify anything you suggest? Would you consider the possibility that you are wrong?

Yes there are others that could verify what I suggest. Would they? No. It is necessary to think thru the ramifications of this to understand why. If a person has power over another, will they willingly relinquish it? Probably not. If someone who can control others tells everyone, they will get mad and punish him. What possible motivation does he have to be honest? No good can come of it.

You do not need anyone else to tell you anything. If someone else tells you, you will never believe. You must prove it to yourself. This is easy to do if you keep an open mind and begin looking at examples and common everyday life. It might take you 6 months or a year of examples to convince yourself but in the end you will convince yourself completely.

No I will not consider the possiblity I am wrong. I am right. I have no doubt.

 

[Happeh]

I would like to get back to this post (emphasism mine):

Originally I thought you were joking. These are the kinds of statements that I question...

This is only an example Fred. It is a very popular and well known example. Everyone has seen this movie so they instantly know what I am talking about. The problem arises because people fixate on "It's a movie" instead of focusing on the idea of one man, darth vader, controlling another man over a distance.

That scene is truly possible. I am not saying the actors in the movie really truly did that, I am saying the enacted a situation that can really happen in real life.

I can provide the both of you with an example of people having energy. The problem is that if you do not accept my explanation for what is happening, we go no where. I think it is common sense that it is necessary to examine multiple examples and truly study the examples given before making a snap judgement. My experience in showing these examples to others is that, because internet time is so fast, people look at the example for 3 minutes, decide they see nothing and then say that means all of my claims are wrong and the example shows nothing.

If you wish, you can view this video. This video shows an example of energy between two people. I will not tell you what is going on. This is just like science. You need to view the evidence and write down your observations independent of my giving hints. Then the different observations can be compared to see if the various observers see similar things.

If I remember correctly, this is a Shooto fight from Japan. 2 fighters have been in the ring for some time. They have reached the end of the round and they are both exhausted. The part of interest begins around 1 minute into the vide and continues to the end. I left in a minute of buildup so that the viewer has time to relax and get a feel for the interactions between the two men. There is a clue in the video title to what is going on. It is an Xvid MPEG 3 video. Xvid is an open source codec you may have to acquire and install. I use Media Player Classic. I do not know if Windows Media Player will play the video or not. It is a 30 meg download if you are on dial up.

http://www.happeh.com/Videos/Entangled.avi

 

[Daminc]

You are wrong in thinking that I am a con man who is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

I never thought you were a con man I just thought you were mistaken in your beliefs.

I know that I left a list of incidents for people to read. After each one I clearly wrote "This is true".

Contarary to most politicians beliefs stating "This is true" doesn't make it true.

All the 'examples' that you have given have alternative explanations which are more mundane and acceptable.

Yes there are others that could verify what I suggest. Would they? No. It is necessary to think thru the ramifications of this to understand why. If a person has power over another, will they willingly relinquish it? Probably not. If someone who can control others tells everyone, they will get mad and punish him. What possible motivation does he have to be honest? No good can come of it.

You do not need anyone else to tell you anything. If someone else tells you, you will never believe. You must prove it to yourself. This is easy to do if you keep an open mind and begin looking at examples and common everyday life. It might take you 6 months or a year of examples to convince yourself but in the end you will convince yourself completely.

No I will not consider the possiblity I am wrong. I am right. I have no doubt.

This just suggests to me that you might need some help. I'm not emphatically saying you are wrong but I think it is highly unlikely that what you said is correct and that you might be dillusional. Please don't take it personally but I had a friend once called Paterick who said something similar to you but this was after he was spiked with 37 acid trips. He was a nice guy until he has one of his 'turns' and has to go back to the hospital (baring in mind he also claimed that he was god and claimed I was Jesus trying to upsurp his position).

 

[Daminc]

I do not know if Windows Media Player will play the video or not. It is a 30 meg download if you are on dial up.

I tried to have a look but it wouldn't load for me.

A friend of mine who has trained heavily in Jeet Kun Do mentioned that, as part of his training, he used shootfighting for developing his tactics while fighting on the ground as says it's a really nasty form.

 

[FredGarvin]

I know that I left a list of incidents for people to read. After each one I clearly wrote "This is true"...

No I will not consider the possiblity I am wrong. I am right. I have no doubt.

Just so I "understand" what is going on here, since I am a "free thinker" and I can rationalize something in MY mind, and I end my sentences with "This is true" everything I say is true or factual? I like that.

 

[FredGarvin]

This is only an example Fred. It is a very popular and well known example...That scene is truly possible. I am not saying the actors in the movie really truly did that, I am saying the enacted a situation that can really happen in real life.

It is not an example, it is a scene from a movie. An example would be an act that happened, for real, was witnessed by other people and is reproducable.

I can provide the both of you with an example of people having energy. The problem is that if you do not accept my explanation for what is happening, we go no where.

I am well aware of energy between people. What I question is your opinions on what you feel can be done with those energies.

If you wish, you can view this video. This video shows an example of energy between two people. I will not tell you what is going on...There is a clue in the video title to what is going on.

http://www.happeh.com/Videos/Entangled.avi

I watched the video quite a few times and I saw nothing that is mystical or defies common knowledge of MMA techniques.

 

[inha]

Neither did I. I saw two tired fighters and techniques one sees in just about every mma bout. But I'm guessing it's because "we can't detect the energy" or "don't know what to look for".