Can Matter Exist in the Same Spacetime Position?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter freewanderer
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matter Overlap
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether matter can exist in the same spacetime position, exploring implications for particles such as atoms, electrons, and quarks. Participants examine the nature of overlap in terms of forces and particles, touching on theoretical principles and interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if one atom can exist in the same spacetime position as another, and whether electrons or quarks can overlap.
  • Others propose that the ambiguity of the term "overlap" complicates the discussion, suggesting that forces can multiply but may not truly overlap.
  • A participant references the Pauli exclusion principle, which suggests that two electrons cannot occupy the same quantum state simultaneously, influencing the discussion on matter overlap.
  • One participant mentions the concept of the overlap integral from solid state physics as a potential answer to the question of matter overlap.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that the strong force may counteract nucleon overlap, implying a force-based perspective on the issue.
  • Some participants highlight the concept of Bose-Einstein condensation, where bosons do not follow the Pauli exclusion principle, as a counterpoint to the overlap discussion.
  • There is a suggestion that quantum tunneling could be viewed as a form of "overlap," although this notion is described as fuzzy and potentially misleading.
  • A later reply speculates on the implications of matter existing in the same spacetime position, likening it to a scenario where identical particles could exist simultaneously, raising questions about the nature of identity and existence in physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the concept of overlap, with no consensus reached on the definitions or implications of matter existing in the same spacetime position. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations related to the definitions of overlap and the assumptions underlying the principles mentioned, such as the Pauli exclusion principle and the nature of forces in quantum mechanics. These factors contribute to the complexity of the topic.

freewanderer
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Or can it? Can one atom exist in the same spacetime position? Can one electron overlap another? Quarks?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Or maybe the question is why don't forces overlap.
 
I think you have to define overlap. Forces can multiply, but "overlap?" It just seems a bit ambiguous...
 
A big part of the answer to this is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle" . Loosely stated, it prevents two electrons from ever being in the same place at the same time. Of course, electrons also repel each other electrically. Between these two you can see why it is hard to walk through walls.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
freewanderer said:
Or can it? Can one atom exist in the same spacetime position? Can one electron overlap another? Quarks?

If you look in a solid state textbook (such as Ashcroft and Mermin), look up what is called as the tight-binding band structure. There, you'll find something called the "overlap integral". That should clearly answer your question.

Zz.
 
Can we assume that the "strong force" works against
"nucleon overlap"?
 
Yeah, "overlap" is a bit of a fuzzy word. I'm for the already-mentioned overlap integral as the most correct response. I'd look into concepts like bose einstein condensation (bosons do not obey pauli and his famous principle). An even fuzzier notion in regard to "matter overlap" is tunneling. It's not as if the matter is overlapping, but in a general (and incorrect) sense, you could kinda call it that. But I wouldn't call it that around a physicist... unless you plan to walk through a wall before they can respond.
 
I think we can assume that he means matter existing in the same spacetime as other matter, that is to say finding a "double particle". Think of the consequences of such an event. Not compressing matter so much as making it disappear and saying it is now in the position of another, identical, particle. It's like trying to sell someone an apple and doubling the price because you can claim there are two existing simultaneously. Mind you, I won't put it beyond the realms of mathematics to prove me wrong.
 

Similar threads

Graduate QFT Superposition of Final States
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Graduate Electron EM Field as Local Gauge Variation of Electron Matter Field
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
High School The nature of anti-particles and anti-matter (a dilettante asks)
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Graduate How can quarks exist if they are confined?
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
10K
Undergrad Understanding Covalent Bonds: The Stability of Matter Explained
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Undergrad Electron wavefunction as an overlap of orbitals
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Undergrad 1s orbital overlaps with the nucleus, why don't they interact?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
High School Why Can't Two Fermions Occupy the Same Quantum State?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Graduate Overlap of Ground States in Quantum Field Theory
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Graduate 2nd Quantization states
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K