Can Methylated Spirits and Liquid Nitrogen Work for a Cloud Chamber?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using methylated spirits and liquid nitrogen in constructing a condensation cloud chamber for demonstrating particle tracks. Participants explore alternatives to high purity alcohol and dry ice, considering practical implications and potential challenges.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Barny, inquires whether methylated spirits can substitute for propanol and if liquid nitrogen can replace dry ice, expressing concerns about the temperature of liquid nitrogen.
  • Another participant suggests that while liquid nitrogen is very cold, it may be too cold unless used with a metal container to prevent freezing the alcohol.
  • A different participant mentions that dry ice is readily available locally and suggests contacting a nearby chemistry department for sourcing alcohol.
  • There is a recommendation to consider using an anti-fogging solution to maintain visibility in the chamber, especially under varying humidity conditions.
  • One participant notes that dry ice can be stored in a cooler to prolong its usability for various experiments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the suitability of methylated spirits and liquid nitrogen, with no consensus reached on their effectiveness compared to the recommended materials. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach for Barny's project.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention practical challenges such as sourcing high purity alcohol and the minimum order quantity for dry ice, which may limit options. Concerns about temperature effects on the alcohol and visibility issues due to humidity are also noted.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for educators, hobbyists, or students interested in building cloud chambers or conducting demonstrations involving particle physics and condensation techniques.

Barny
Messages
47
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I'm attempting to make a condensation cloud chamber to display alpha and beta particle tracks to a class of school kids as part of my placement.

I get how it all works but I'm having real trouble with two things...

1) Finding a source of high purity alcohol.
2) Getting hold of some dry ice.

My questions are:

Will using methylated spirits work instead of the recommended propanol and will liquid nitrogen serve as an acceptable replacement to dry ice. I know its cold enough but am worried it might be too cold.

Cheers.

Barny
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I use ethanol, but then again, I get those rather easily here at the lab.

Using liquid nitrogen might be too cold unless you pour them into some metal container and rest the chamber on top of it. You want something that can sustain the cold temperature for a while without causing the alcohol to freeze.

You might also want to consider an anti-fogging liquid to wipe your chamber with. Depending on the humidity, you might not be able to see anything if your chamber becomes very cold due to the humidity condensing on your viewing area.

Zz.
 
Dry ice shouldn't be too much of a problem, it's in the yellow pages around here. Cloud chambers are pretty cool, it does make for a nifty demonstration. They do get foggy though. I don't know how well the anti-fog solution works, but I would give it a shot.

Alcohols, hmm perhaps ask a nearby Chem department as to where they get theirs?


ZapperZ said:
I use ethanol, but then again, I get those rather easily here at the lab.

Using liquid nitrogen might be too cold unless you pour them into some metal container and rest the chamber on top of it. You want something that can sustain the cold temperature for a while without causing the alcohol to freeze.

You might also want to consider an anti-fogging liquid to wipe your chamber with. Depending on the humidity, you might not be able to see anything if your chamber becomes very cold due to the humidity condensing on your viewing area.

Zz.
 
Thanks very much, most appreciated!

Your right that you can get dry ice out of the yellow pages, i just don't need 10Kg of it, which was their minimum order!

Cheers!
 
Keep it around in a cooler, it'll stay for a while. There's lots of fun stuff you can do with dry ice :)
 

Similar threads

High School Why is My Homemade Cloud Chamber Not Working?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Undergrad Help getting my Cloud Chamber to work please
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Undergrad Why Isn't My Cloud Chamber Showing Tracks?
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
7K
High School Homemade cloud chamber not working
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
28K
Undergrad In what ways can a cloud chamber be built without relying on dry ice?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
10K
Graduate What could be causing my cloud chamber experiment to fail?
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
8K
Graduate Why is air colorless even though nitrogen and carbon dioxide are white gases?
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
8K