Can Muonium Be Produced and Observed in Electron-Positron Collider Experiments?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Naeem Anwar
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Atom Pure Qed
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the production and observation of muonium in electron-positron collider experiments, specifically focusing on the scattering process and the associated Feynman diagrams. Participants explore the theoretical aspects of the decay amplitudes and the complexities involved in modeling the interactions of muons and antimuons.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the inclusion of the vertex for the process ##2γ \to μ^+μ^-## in the decay amplitude, expressing confusion about the necessary details regarding the bound state and wave function.
  • Another participant clarifies that there is no direct vertex for two photons producing a muon-antimuon pair and mentions that the relevant diagram is a one-loop "box" diagram.
  • A participant seeks further details on how to incorporate the box diagram into the amplitude, noting a lack of clarity regarding the initial mention of the ##e^+e^- \to 2γ## process.
  • Discussion includes the dependence of the interaction on the relative speed of the muon and antimuon, suggesting that at small speeds, the Coulomb interaction must be considered, which requires summing an infinite number of photon exchanges.
  • References to past work, including a PhD thesis and papers by other researchers, are suggested as potential resources for further understanding the topic.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the assistance received and acknowledges the helpfulness of the referenced papers, while also noting difficulty in accessing a specific thesis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the decay amplitude and the role of the box diagram, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain regarding the details of the interactions involved.

Contextual Notes

Discussion highlights the complexity of modeling interactions in quantum field theory, particularly regarding the assumptions about relative speeds and the implications for the treatment of bound states. Some references mentioned may not be readily accessible, which could limit the ability to verify or explore the discussed concepts further.

Naeem Anwar
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Studying the production of the bound state of ##μ^+μ^- ## in the scattering experiments of ##e^+e^-## at electron positron colliders ##e^+e^-\toμ^+μ^- ## via ##e^+e^-\to 2γ\toμ^+μ^- ##. This bound state further can decay into ##e^+e^-## or ##2γ##.

I am confused about the vertex ## 2γ\toμ^+μ^- ## in the Feynman diagram, how can I include it in decay amplitude? Of course it need some detail of bound state, wave-function etc., but how to deal with this stuff? Looking for some literature/QFT book which involves this type of vertex for production of positronium (##e^+e^-##) or muonium (##e^+μ^-##).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Is your question about what Feynman diagram contributes to this reaction?
First, note that there is no vertex for two photons going directly to a mu+ and mu-. The diagram is a one-loop "box" diagram.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Naeem Anwar
Dear nrqed, I know the diagram, I am curious about how to add the details of the "box" in the amplitude?
 

Attachments

  • Untitled.png
    Untitled.png
    2.5 KB · Views: 429
Naeem Anwar said:
Dear nrqed, I know the diagram, I am curious about how to add the details of the "box" in the amplitude?

I am a bit confused why you initially mentioned e e+ going to two gammas, I don't see this in the diagram.

For the box, it depends if the
Naeem Anwar said:
Dear nrqed, I know the diagram, I am curious about how to add the details of the "box" in the amplitude?
Hi,

Ah ok. I am confused why you mentioned e- e+ going to two photons in your original post, this does not occur in your diagram.

Well, it depends on whether the muon and antimuon are produced with a small relative speed or not. If it is large, you can just do the usual Feynman diagram expansion. But at small speeds, the muon and antimuon can interact for a long time, being essentially bound through the Coulomb interaction. In that case, one must sum up an infinite number of Coulomb photon exchanges between the two. This can be done. I don't know if my PhD thesis is available online easily (Patrick Labelle, Cornell University, 1994) but I do it there. Or look for old papers by Peter Lepage (on positronium) or my Toichiro Kinoshita (on muonium)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Naeem Anwar
nrqed said:
I am a bit confused why you initially mentioned e e+ going to two gammas, I don't see this in the diagram.

Hi,

Ah ok. I am confused why you mentioned e- e+ going to two photons in your original post, this does not occur in your diagram.

Well, it depends on whether the muon and antimuon are produced with a small relative speed or not. If it is large, you can just do the usual Feynman diagram expansion. But at small speeds, the muon and antimuon can interact for a long time, being essentially bound through the Coulomb interaction. In that case, one must sum up an infinite number of Coulomb photon exchanges between the two. This can be done. I don't know if my PhD thesis is available online easily (Patrick Labelle, Cornell University, 1994) but I do it there. Or look for old papers by Peter Lepage (on positronium) or my Toichiro Kinoshita (on muonium)
Now that I think of it, the easiest reference to find is a paper on pionium by Labelle and Buckley. It is on the archives. I am pretty sure we give the formula needed in that paper.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Naeem Anwar
Thanks dear P. Labelle, I acknowledge your help. Sorry for my poor understanding & language used in question. I found all of your papers on HEP-INSPIRE, I also found many of my answers there. The paper you mentioned (with Buckley), I just downloaded & reading now. I am not able to get your thesis, it is not available in PDF form online.
 
Naeem Anwar said:
Thanks dear P. Labelle, I acknowledge your help. Sorry for my poor understanding & language used in question. I found all of your papers on HEP-INSPIRE, I also found many of my answers there. The paper you mentioned (with Buckley), I just downloaded & reading now. I am not able to get your thesis, it is not available in PDF form online.
You are very welcome. And there is no reason to apologize for anything!

If anything is unclear in my papers, please don't hesitate to ask!

Regards,

Patrick
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Naeem Anwar

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
12K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K