Can one call a linear order a lattice? If not

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether a linear order can be classified as a lattice, exploring the definitions and properties of lattices, linear orders, and partial orders. Participants examine the relationships between these concepts and the implications of extending partial orders.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the uniqueness of meets and joins in a lattice implies that lattices must have discrete elements.
  • Another participant questions the reasoning behind the assertion that lattices must have discrete elements and asserts that any linear order qualifies as a lattice, including the real numbers.
  • A participant acknowledges confusion regarding the definition of meets and joins, clarifying their understanding of discrete elements as separate elements.
  • There is a proposal regarding the extension of a partial order on a set to a lattice without adding new elements, specifically referencing the partial order of complex numbers based on modulus.
  • Another participant asserts that any partial order can be extended to a linear order and suggests that this extension can also result in a lattice, referencing Zorn's lemma.
  • A further elaboration is made on defining an ordering for the circles in the complex plane to achieve a linear order.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between linear orders and lattices, with some asserting that all linear orders are lattices while others question the implications of discrete elements. The discussion on extending partial orders remains unresolved, with varying perspectives on the feasibility and methods of such extensions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical concepts such as meets, joins, and Zorn's lemma, which may require further clarification for those unfamiliar with these terms. The discussion also highlights the potential ambiguity in definitions and the conditions under which certain properties hold.

nomadreid
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Can one call a linear order a lattice? If not...

I have problems putting together the three ideas
(1) the meets and joins of a lattice are unique, hence lattices must have discrete elements
(2) the truth values of a logic are arranged in a lattice
(3) there exist probability logics, whereby each truth value is a probability which can be any real number between 0 and 1, inclusive.
These three do not seem to fit together, so which one is wrong?
Thanks
 
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nomadreid said:
I have problems putting together the three ideas
(1) the meets and joins of a lattice are unique,

OK

hence lattices must have discrete elements

Why does that follow? And what do you mean with discrete elements?

And yes, any linear order is a lattice. So ##\mathbb{R}## is a lattice.
 
micromass, thanks for the answer. I must have been brain dead in writing that question, as I was somehow thinking of the meet of a and b being less than rather than less than or equal to a and b.
By discrete elements I meant separate elements (Hausdorff); another symptom of brain death.
Thanks for reviving me. I promise to be a good zombie.
Actually, I was trying to work my way up to a slightly more involved question, that of whether any partial order on S can be extended to a lattice so that no new elements are added and the order stays the same. (The specific one I was thinking of was partially ordering complex numbers with modulus less than or equal to 1, whereby the partial order is defined by: a+bi < c+di iff a2+b2 < c2+d2 (essentially concentric circles). But I do not think it can be turned into a lattice.)
 
You can always extend the partial order to a linear order. So yes, in particular you can extend your order to a lattice. This can be proven using Zorn's lemma.

In your specific case, all you need to do is define some ordering on the circles. This can be done in many ways (but none of them are very natural). Once you have done that, you will have a linear order on ##\mathbb{C}##.
 
thanks again, micromass.
True, it would be easy enough to just say z1 < z2 iff
[either
||z1||< ||z2||
or
(||z1||= ||z2|| & angle 1-0-z1 < 1-0-z2)].
 

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