Can Quantum Time and Space Have Countable States After the Big Bang?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether quantum time and space can have countable states following the Big Bang. Participants explore the implications of quantized space and time, the nature of the universe, and the theoretical frameworks that might support these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the universe is composed of quantum portions in time and space, then there could be a countable number of states following the Big Bang.
  • Others inquire about the theoretical basis for this idea, asking for references or underlying hypotheses to support the claims made.
  • A participant suggests that the concept of quantized space and time is not original and implies that there should be existing references to support it.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of a finite versus infinite Big Bang, with some arguing that if the universe was infinite at the time of the Big Bang, then the Big Bang itself must also be infinite.
  • One participant challenges the logical coherence of equating the properties of numbers with the nature of the Big Bang, suggesting that such comparisons are flawed without a clear definition of the terms involved.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for a theoretical framework to discuss the nature of quantum portions of space and time, arguing that without such a framework, the discussion lacks substance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Big Bang and the concept of quantized space and time. There is no consensus on the validity of the claims made, and the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of defining terms and theories when discussing complex concepts like the Big Bang and quantum states. There are unresolved questions regarding boundary conditions and the theoretical underpinnings of the ideas presented.

Omega0
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Hi,

if there was a big bang I would assume a countable number of states, if the universe is build of quantum portions
in time and space?

Thanks!
 
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Hi,

no, I mean one single universe. Every singe step might be countable.
 
Omega0 said:
if there was a big bang I would assume a countable number of states, if the universe is build of quantum portions
in time and space?

What theory (or speculative hypothesis) are you basing this on? Can you give a reference?
 
PeterDonis said:
What theory (or speculative hypothesis) are you basing this on? Can you give a reference?
Sorry, no reference, just a thought, so something speculative.
How do you set up the boundary conditions while the big bang?
 
Omega0 said:
Sorry, no reference, just a thought

We can't really respond to it unless we have some idea what underlying theory or hypothesis you're using.

Omega0 said:
How do you set up the boundary conditions while the big bang?

Again, what theory or hypothesis about the Big Bang do you want us to use in answering this? (I'm also not sure what you mean by "set up the boundary conditions"; knowing what theory or hypothesis you are using would help with that.)
 
PeterDonis said:
We can't really respond to it unless we have some idea what underlying theory or hypothesis you're using.
The idea is pretty simple, and it is not mine: It might be that space and time is quantized.
 
Omega0 said:
The idea is pretty simple, and it is not mine: It might be that space and time is quantized.

Ok, if it's not just your idea, there must be a reference about it somewhere. Can you give one? Where did you get the idea from?
 
What you are suggesting implies a finiteness to the big bang. Since the BB occurred everywhere, if everywhere was infinite at the time of the BB, then the BB was infinite. No existing observational evidence rules out this possibility.
 
  • #10
Chronos said:
What you are suggesting implies a finiteness to the big bang. Since the BB occurred everywhere, if everywhere was infinite at the time of the BB, then the BB was infinite. No existing observational evidence rules out this possibility.
This is not a logical thought. This is like saying every number divided by 2 is a number. This is true for the real numbers but wrong for the natural numbers. The real numbers or complex numbers are constructions. The same for the process of BB: It makes no sense to letting the BB something obscure, something which happened in a time where there was no time.
This makes no sense. It is comparable with black holes beyond the horizon. What physics works there?

Do you really believe in your "prove"? The main problem is that we trust in differential equations, aren't we?
 
  • #11
Omega0 said:
This is not a logical thought. This is like saying every number divided by 2 is a number. This is true for the real numbers but wrong for the natural numbers. The real numbers or complex numbers are constructions. The same for the process of BB: It makes no sense to letting the BB something obscure, something which happened in a time where there was no time.
This makes no sense. It is comparable with black holes beyond the horizon. What physics works there?

Do you really believe in your "prove"? The main problem is that we trust in differential equations, aren't we?

It would be best if you can give some reference as to what you are on about, if it is a personal theory:rolleyes:
 
  • #12
Omega0 said:
This is like saying every number divided by 2 is a number. This is true for the real numbers but wrong for the natural numbers.

In other words, before we can say whether every "number" divided by 2 is a "number", we need to know what a "number" is and how "numbers" work. In other words, we need a theory of the kind of "numbers" we are talking about.

Similarly, to know whether it could be the case that "the universe is built of quantum portions of space and time", and what the effects of that would be, we need to know what it means. In other words, we need a theory of "quantum portions of space and time" that tells us how the universe could be built out of them.

Until you can provide a reference for such a theory, discussion of this topic is pointless. Thread closed. If you can find a reference, PM me and I'll look at it.
 

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