Can relativistic abberation be observed in quasar jets?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the observation of relativistic aberration in quasar jets, exploring the differences between classical and relativistic explanations of aberration. Participants question whether aberration angles can be definitively attributed to relativistic effects, particularly in the context of quasars emitting matter at high velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that at speeds much slower than the speed of light, the aberration angle is very small, and historical observations of stellar aberration have been minimal.
  • One participant asserts that the relativistic correction to aberration is too small to be observed definitively.
  • Another participant claims that relativistic aberration has been detected experimentally, although they do not provide specific references.
  • It is mentioned that observed aberration angles are around 20 seconds of arc, with the relativistic effect being a correction of the order of v/c, where v is the relative transverse velocity.
  • One participant suggests that relativistic aberration is observable in quasar jets, which are ejected at velocities close to 0.99c, making them significant for studying relativistic effects.
  • Several references are provided for further reading on the topic, including links to articles and papers related to relativistic beaming and quasar jets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether relativistic aberration has been definitively observed, with some asserting it has and others questioning the clarity of such observations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which relativistic effects can be attributed to observed aberration angles.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the precise knowledge of the velocities involved, which affects the ability to observe the relativistic corrections to aberration. The dependence on specific observational contexts and definitions of aberration is also noted.

W.RonG
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Been reading about aberration and two explanations that diverge - classical and relativistic. at speeds much slower than c the angle is very small for either formulation. the stellar aberration that led Bradley to the explanation 300 years ago is less than a minute of arc. Has there been any observation of aberration angles such that it can be definitely ascribed to relativistic effects?
Thanks.
rg
 
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No. The relativistic correction is too small.
But it is good that SR keeps the aberration result.
 
aberration

W.RonG said:
Been reading about aberration and two explanations that diverge - classical and relativistic. at speeds much slower than c the angle is very small for either formulation. the stellar aberration that led Bradley to the explanation 300 years ago is less than a minute of arc. Has there been any observation of aberration angles such that it can be definitely ascribed to relativistic effects?
Thanks.
rg

Have an illuminating look at
Yuan Zhong Zhang Special Relativity and its experimentgal foundations (World Scientific
Singapore 1940) pp.153-154
 
W.RonG said:
Been reading about aberration and two explanations that diverge - classical and relativistic. at speeds much slower than c the angle is very small for either formulation. the stellar aberration that led Bradley to the explanation 300 years ago is less than a minute of arc. Has there been any observation of aberration angles such that it can be definitely ascribed to relativistic effects?
Thanks.
rg

I'm pretty sure relativistic aberration has been detected experimentally, but I don't have a specific reference to hand.
 
The angle of aberration is of the order of v/c, where v is the relative transverse velocity of a star. Observed aberration angles are of the order of 20 seconds of arc. The relativistic effect is an order v/c correction to this. Without a precise knowledge of the star's velocity, this v/c correction has not yet been observed.
The transverse Doppler shift probably has been observed.
 
W.RonG said:
Been reading about aberration and two explanations that diverge - classical and relativistic. at speeds much slower than c the angle is very small for either formulation. the stellar aberration that led Bradley to the explanation 300 years ago is less than a minute of arc. Has there been any observation of aberration angles such that it can be definitely ascribed to relativistic effects?
Thanks.
rg

Relativistic abberation is observed in the jets emmited from quasars orientated at certain angles. Matter is ejected from quasars at relative velocities of up to 0.99c and so this makes quasars a useful subject to study in the context of relativity. Some key words that are helpful for a search on this subject are: ("relativistic beaming" quasar blazar superluminal jets unification abberation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar
http://dspace.nitle.org/bitstream/10090/545/1/EricDanielsonSpring07.pdf[/URL]
[url]http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v314/n6010/abs/314425a0.html[/url]
[PLAIN]http://antares.in2p3.fr/users/pradier/Miraall/node3.html[/URL]
 
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