Can Someone Explain Step 4 in the Buckingham Pi Theorem Homework?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding step 4 of the Buckingham Pi Theorem, specifically regarding the identification of repeating and non-repeating variables in dimensional analysis. The original poster seeks clarification on the grouping of variables as presented in the provided images.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the identification of repeating variables, with some asserting that D, V, and ρ are the repeating variables, while others question the reasoning behind this selection. There is exploration of how to determine which variables can be considered non-repeating and the criteria for their selection.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with multiple interpretations being explored regarding the selection of repeating and non-repeating variables. Some participants provide insights into the dimensional analysis process, while others express uncertainty about the criteria used for choosing the variables.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the constraints of the problem as presented in the images, which may lack explicit definitions or examples that clarify the grouping of variables. The discussion reflects an effort to understand the foundational concepts of dimensional analysis within the context of the Buckingham Pi Theorem.

hotjohn
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Homework Statement



http://www-mdp.eng.cam.ac.uk/web/li...mal_dvd_only/aero/fprops/dimension/node9.html

can somoene expalin about step 4 in the first photo attached ?
What does it mean by each group has all the repeating variables and non-repeating variable ?

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


As in the second photo , the repeating variable is M , L , and T . Each Fd , D , V , µ and ρ have M, L, T . So , what where is the non-repeating factor ?
In the first phto, we can see that the author group ( D, V ,
ρ and F ) into π1 ,
(D , V , µ and ρ ) into π2 . I didnt see any non-repeating factor into both π1 and π2
 

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hotjohn said:
As in the second photo , the repeating variable is M , L , and T .
No, in both images the repeating variables are D , V, and ρ.
Each Pi group must contain all repeating variables and exactly one non-repeating. Each Pi group must use a different non-repeating variable, hence the name.
The two non repeating vars are F and mu, so the two groups are D, V, rho, F and D, V, rho, mu.
 
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haruspex said:
No, in both images the repeating variables are D , V, and ρ.
Each Pi group must contain all repeating variables and exactly one non-repeating. Each Pi group must use a different non-repeating variable, hence the name.
The two non repeating vars are F and mu, so the two groups are D, V, rho, F and D, V, rho, mu.
Why the repeating variables are D , V, and ρ ? how to see it ? for three of them , they contain L , L/ T and M / ( L^3) respectively...
 
hotjohn said:
Why the repeating variables are D , V, and ρ ? how to see it ? for three of them , they contain L , L/ T and M / ( L^3) respectively...
Not sure what it is you are asking how to see.
If you mean, how to choose them, it's like picking a basis for a vector space. Since the only fundamental dimensions present are M, L and T, the space is three dimensional. A basis is therefore three linearly independent vectors. Linearly independent here means that you cannot construct a dimensionless quantity from them, except trivially.
Since M only occurs in rho, you cannot get rid of it again by bringing in a combination of the D and V. So any dimensionless construct from them cannot involve rho. That leaves D and V. T occurs in V but not in D, so there is no nontrivial combination of D and V that is dimensionless.
 
haruspex said:
Not sure what it is you are asking how to see.
If you mean, how to choose them, it's like picking a basis for a vector space. Since the only fundamental dimensions present are M, L and T, the space is three dimensional. A basis is therefore three linearly independent vectors. Linearly independent here means that you cannot construct a dimensionless quantity from them, except trivially.
Since M only occurs in rho, you cannot get rid of it again by bringing in a combination of the D and V. So any dimensionless construct from them cannot involve rho. That leaves D and V. T occurs in V but not in D, so there is no nontrivial combination of D and V that is dimensionless.
do u mean we choose D , V, and ρ becasue they are the simplest quantity , that we cannot derive from any other physical unit ?
 
hotjohn said:
do u mean we choose D , V, and ρ becasue they are the simplest quantity , that we cannot derive from any other physical unit ?
Not sure if they're the simplest. In the worked example you posted (ac.png) any three of D, V, rho, mu will do. None of them can be dimensionally constructed from the other three.
 

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