Can Something That Doesn't Exist Exist? The Paradox of Non-Existence

[KaneOris]

The definition of nothingness is what it is, nothing... Now you can say, that if there was nothing it would still be something, and would have properties etc, but even if impossible to reach, nothingness means for nothing to exist, so wether it is achievable or not, nothingness is still nothing.

 

[eighth man]

48 hours is too long. Don't take logic too seriously, all this search for "non contradiction" is probably simply an "aesthetical (aka artistic)" preference. Any concept or problem or theory that is thought upon too precisely will end uo creating contradictions! That is because contradictions are the universe and we try to force it into a scheme of non contradictions.

I accept contradictions, because I think that it is a higher form of reasonining. Also you can claim anything and everything and get away with it and it is fun.

THE TOBOR APE

 

[Zuryn]

To say that "nothing" can not exist would be audacious because you would be refer referring "nothing" as to something that is more that a concept. To be concise, "nothing" is neither existent nor non-existent.

 

[KaneOris]

Yes but the idea of nothingness does exist, it is just unacheivable

 

[eighth man]

Remember to accept contradictions! Nothing exists and doesn't exist at the same time and in the same place. Everything is both true and false simultaneously! Every conceivable concept exists and doesn't exist simultaneously.

Really I can't understand why it is so hard to accept reasoning through contradiction! There is absolutely no reason not to use this wonderful logical mechanism that solves all philosophical problems. After all we are not calculating the structure of a bridge so contradictions in this realm is acceptable.


TOBOR APE MAN

 

[juju]

Hi all,

The way to deal with contradictions is to find something from which all sides of the contriction can be derived.

Sometimes this something is just nothingness. That's the way it is.

If you extend Godels theorems on completeness and inconsistancy you will eventually arrive at a penultimate set of concepts the are all mutually exclusive, with no synthesis to derive them from.

This leaves the ultimate concept in the realm of nothingness.

juju

 

[Philocrat]

Remember to accept contradictions! Nothing exists and doesn't exist at the same time and in the same place. Everything is both true and false simultaneously! Every conceivable concept exists and doesn't exist simultaneously.

Really I can't understand why it is so hard to accept reasoning through contradiction! There is absolutely no reason not to use this wonderful logical mechanism that solves all philosophical problems. After all we are not calculating the structure of a bridge so contradictions in this realm is acceptable.


TOBOR APE MAN

To say that something is the case and not the case at the same time logically implies:

Something is partly the case and partly not the case.

The Law of Contradiction naturally clarifies the Law of Excluded Middle paradigmatically. It is a paradigmatic shift from Circularism!

 

[eighth man]

Well I meant that my personal vision of "accepting contradictions" means I don't accept any "law of contradiction", aka "I decide whatever I want" aka "I could care less how incoherent my reasoning goes" aka "it is all true and it is all false" aka /(&&&&"=8//xU) this is a formula I invented that could mean anything ...

8 TOBORS

 

[RingoKid]

In this sense nothing is what you're left with if you take everything away

so in universal speak

by rewinding time and compressing space you encounter the singular nothing that is only relative to itself as there is a lack of something to compare it too.

so where is this nothing now ?...depends who you ask.

a loop gravitist, a string theorist, a relativist will tell you different things but they don't really know and they don't really want to acknowledge that they don't know until they do.

They will probably telll you it is irrelevent

Which is why I am holding tight for the theory of nothing which will be much more compelling than a theory of everything for with a theory of nothing someone is going to have to account for consciousness.

And really what do physicists know about consciousness ?

can somebody now tell me what this infinity thing is all about as well ?

 

[eighth man]

OK. Let's not get too mysterious now. I can be somewhat scientific too...
Consciousness is probably nothing special in the end. It may be just a complex neural network in our brains that have multiple "reflections" loops (like in software) and other structures all probably very physical (like PC chips). Real problem is that to discover what and how consciousness works and is we will have to modify our neural networks directly and "experience" the effect. Now not too many scientists (or volenteers) will be willing too have their brain physically manipulated.

8

 

[magus niche]

whole nothingness

infinity accounts for nothing as 'nothing' is a concept developed by humans, and we seem to exist. infinity just means that novelty should not come as any great surprise, as anything/nothing is possible. and anything/nothing is predictable.

i agree/disagree with eighth man. contradictions are everywhere and they prove that we are constructing our realities.

to imagine nothing one could try thinking of everything at once (meaning as instantly as possible) and not dwell upon anyone thing for long. but this is an intellegent way of acting. a more sensory action may be easier (ie. by laying down and sensing with all senses ones external surroundings/internal feelings). again, one can only do the best one can. of course, it is nearly impossible to achieve, but worth trying, as there are many people who claim it is extremely good for you!

 

[Imparcticle]

i agree/disagree with eighth man. contradictions are everywhere and they prove that we are constructing our realities.

Contradictions prove that there is chaos. (i'm not sure...)

to imagine nothing one could try thinking of everything at once (meaning as instantly as possible) and not dwell upon anyone thing for long. but this is an intellegent way of acting. a more sensory action may be easier (ie. by laying down and sensing with all senses ones external surroundings/internal feelings). again, one can only do the best one can. of course, it is nearly impossible to achieve, but worth trying, as there are many people who claim it is extremely good for you!

Wouldn't it make more sense to think of everything and its inverse at once? Just as +1+(-1)=0, couldn't +everything+-everything=nothing?

I couldn't help saying that, even though I disagree with myself on the above statement and with you. Anyway, it is futile to imagine something when that something doesn't exist.

 

[magus niche]

sounds good, a sort of balancing out of chaos!
yes my description (as with all descriptions) cannot be meaningful for everyone. i look back at it and it's pretty confusing.

but who says nothing does not exist? some things may not be physical as such, and could be termed 'nothing' as aside from the physical 'something'...? actually i am coming closer to the conclusion that 'nothing' is a fallicy.

 

[DJmaux]

Yes nothing does exist. Even though nothing is an impossibility that impossibility exists. I know it sounds like a contradiction but the universe is paradoxical like that.
Without nothing everything could not exist.