Can the General Solution for this Exponential Equation be Found?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Heimdall
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Exponential Member
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the general solution for the second-order differential equation derived from plasma equilibrium, specifically the equation \(\frac{d^2f\left(x\right)}{dx^2}= A\exp\left(f\left(x\right)/B\right)\). Participants explore various methods and substitutions to approach the solution, examining both theoretical and mathematical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests a method involving the manipulation of derivatives and exponential functions, leading to a form of the equation that may not have a simple exact solution.
  • Another participant proposes a substitution \(u^{2}=e^{\frac{f}{B}}\) and derives an integral that could lead to a solution, indicating that the approach seems promising.
  • There are discussions about the implications of initial conditions, such as \(f(0)=f'(0)=0\), and how they affect the integrals and potential solutions.
  • One participant mentions the Gudermannian function as a result of their integration, expressing concern about the complexity of returning to the original function \(f\).
  • A later post introduces an alternative integral approach, suggesting a different method to derive a solution involving hyperbolic functions.
  • Another participant points out a critical distinction in the form of the equation, noting that the presence of \(1-\exp{\left(f/B\right)}\) versus \(\exp-1\) leads to different solutions under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the general solution, with multiple competing approaches and interpretations of the problem remaining unresolved. There is acknowledgment of different methods and their implications, but no agreement on a singular solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the validity of solutions under specific conditions, such as the signs in equations and the implications of initial values. The discussion highlights the complexity of the mathematical steps involved and the dependence on the definitions used in the problem.

Heimdall
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Hello,


I'm trying to solve this equation :

[tex]\frac{d^2f\left(x\right)}{dx^2}= A\exp\left(f\left(x\right)/B\right)[/tex]

(which comes from plasma equilibrium)

I can't find out what's the general solution... is there a method to solve with this kind of second member
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Well, you can make some headway as follows:
[tex]\frac{d^{2}f}{dx^{2}}f'(x)=Ae^{\frac{f}{B}}f'(x)\to\frac{1}{2}((f'(x))^{2}-(f'(x_{0}))^{2})=BA(e^{\frac{f(x)}{B}}-e^{\frac{f(x_{0})}{B}[/tex]
Whereby it follows that:
[tex]f'(x)^{2}=Ce^{\frac{f}{B}}+K[/tex]
where C=2AB, and K depends on the values of the function and its derivative at [itex]x_{0}[/tex]<br /> <br /> There is no particular reason why this should have a simple exact solution.[/itex]
 
lets say that [tex]f\left(x_0=0\right)=f'\left(0\right)=0[/tex]

so that we have :

[tex]f'^2 = 2BA\left(\exp\left(f/B\right)-1\right)[/tex]

or [tex]f'^2 = 4AB\exp\left(f/2B\right)sinsh\left(f/2B\right)[/tex]

I know there's a trick somewhere because the solution should be something like

[tex]log\left(cosh\left(\right)\right)[/tex]
 
Last edited:
Okay, let's see:

Let:
[tex]u^{2}=e^{\frac{f}{B}}\to{2u}\frac{du}{dx}=u\frac{f'}{B}\to{2Bdu}=f'dx[/tex]
This substitution seems very promising..
We get:
[tex]\frac{f'}{\sqrt{2AB}\sqrt{e^{\frac{f}{B}}-1}}=\pm{1}[/tex]
which leads to:
[tex]\sqrt{\frac{2B}{A}}\int\frac{du}{\sqrt{u^{2}-1}}=\pm{x}+C[/tex]
We set u=Cosh(v), yielding:
[tex]\sqrt{\frac{2B}{A}}sgn(Sinh(v))v=\pm{x}+C[/tex]
essentially yielding the result for f you mentioned; just get the signs right.
 
Last edited:
Hum,

[tex]2u\frac{du}{dx} = \frac{f'}{B}e^{f/B} = \frac{f'}{B}u^2[/tex]

which means that

[tex]2B\frac{du}{u} = f'dx[/tex]

now the integral is :

[tex]\int\frac{2Bdu}{u\sqrt{u^2-1}}[/tex]

and with your u = ch(v) you get

[tex]\int \frac{dv}{ch\left(v\right)}[/tex]
 
Okay, made a mistake there.
 
I've looked on the web and

[tex]\int \frac{dv}{ch\left(v\right)} = gd\left(v\right)[/tex]

where gd(v) is the Gudermannian function :

[tex]gd\left(v\right) = 2\arctan\left(th\left(\frac{v}{2}\right)\right)[/tex]which doesn't look nice if you come back to f
 
arildno said:
[tex]\frac{f'}{\sqrt{2AB}\sqrt{e^{\frac{f}{B}}-1}}=\pm{1}[/tex]


I haven't seen it the first time but you can't even do this if x=0 (because f(0)=0)
 
That need not be destructive, since f' is zero also.
You have an improper integral.
 
  • #10
Heimdall said:
Hum,

[tex]2u\frac{du}{dx} = \frac{f'}{B}e^{f/B} = \frac{f'}{B}u^2[/tex]

which means that

[tex]2B\frac{du}{u} = f'dx[/tex]

now the integral is :

[tex]\int\frac{2Bdu}{u\sqrt{u^2-1}}[/tex]

and with your u = ch(v) you get

[tex]\int \frac{dv}{ch\left(v\right)}[/tex]
So, then we continue!

We set y=tanh(v/2)[tex]\frac{dy}{dv}=\frac{1}{2}\frac{1}{Cosh^{2}(\frac{v}{2})}=\frac{1}{2}(1-y^{2})\to{dv}=\frac{2dy}{1-y^{2}}[/tex]
Thereby, we get:
[tex]\int\frac{1*dv}{Cosh(v)}=\int\frac{Cosh^{2}(\frac{v}{2})-Sinh^{2}(\frac{v}{2})}{Cosh^{2}(\frac{v}{2})+Sinh^{2}(\frac{v}{2})}dv=\int\frac{1-y^{2}}{1+y^{2}}\frac{2dy}{1-y^{2}}=\int\frac{2dy}{1+y^{2}}=2arctan(y)+C[/tex]
And we are essentially done. :smile:
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Heimdall said:
I've looked on the web and

[tex]\int \frac{dv}{ch\left(v\right)} = gd\left(v\right)[/tex]

where gd(v) is the Gudermannian function :

[tex]gd\left(v\right) = 2\arctan\left(th\left(\frac{v}{2}\right)\right)[/tex]


which doesn't look nice if you come back to f
I didn't see this post. Sorry about that.
 
  • #12
Hi :)

In the mean time I got another solution :

[tex]I = \int\frac{f'dx}{\sqrt{1-\exp{\left(f/B\right)}}}[/tex]

let [tex]u^2 = 1-\exp{\left(f/B\right)}[/tex]

so we have :

[tex]-2Budu\frac{1}{1-u^2} = f'dx[/tex]

and we get :

[tex]I = -2B\int \frac{du}{1-u^2} = -2Bargth\left(u\right)[/tex]

[tex]I = -2Bargth\left(\sqrt{1-\exp{\left(f/K\right)}}\right) = -\sqrt{2AB}x[/tex]

[tex]\sqrt{1-\exp{\left(f/B\right)}} = th\left(\sqrt{\frac{A}{2B}x}\right)[/tex]

[tex]f = -2B\ Ln\left(ch\left(\sqrt{\frac{A}{2B}}x\right)\right)[/tex] :)
 
  • #13
Note that in this case, you have 1-exp beneath the square root sign; not exp-1.

That will naturally yield a totally different solution, valid whenever AB<0, K>0.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
959
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K