News Can the market alone fix the economy?

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The discussion highlights concerns about the U.S. economy's sustainability, emphasizing the need for effective government oversight and personal responsibility in financial matters. Participants argue that the current system encourages excessive debt accumulation without accountability, leading to a cycle of complacency and financial hardship. There is a call for uniform usury laws to protect consumers from predatory lending practices, while also acknowledging that many individuals make poor financial decisions. The conversation also touches on the impact of medical debt on bankruptcies and critiques the role of corporations and unions in perpetuating economic issues. Ultimately, the need for a systemic overhaul to promote fairness and responsibility in financial practices is underscored.
  • #541
SixNein said:
Al68 said:
Why would you even reply to a post you obviously didn't read?:frown:
Well, the flat tax plans that have been proposed by Republicans have a flat rate with huge standard deductions that effectively exempt poor and lower-middle class from income taxes. Dems called those "right wing wacko extremism to benefit the rich". It's just hate speech, no substance.
Maybe I just misread you, I was up like all that night =(

Flat tax is bad because there isn't deductions. It would tip the inequality imbalance even further then what it is now.
Well, you just replied again, obviously without reading even the part of my post that you quoted. I think that explains a lot.
You've replied to many posts in this thread and others when you obviously didn't read the post you replied to.

:frown::frown::frown::frown::frown:
:frown::frown::frown::frown::frown:
 
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  • #542
WhoWee said:
Neither plan addresses job creation in the small business sector...Dems want expansion of govt and reps want corp tax cuts. We need programs that assist small to medium sized domestic firms, such as expanded; SBA, State Business Development, Enterprise Zones, Main Street Revitalization, perhaps even allow more under-the-table casual labor without taxation...reward extra effort/side jobs.

I'm not well versed on this subject, but my company is a small business (in the last 2 months, we've gone from 110 employees to 77 today...getting smaller all the time!). My director told us we are relying on http://www.sba.gov/recovery/" , part of the stimulus bill, to get through the next half year or year or so.

It's part of the stimulus bill, and it's directed at small businesses.

From that link:

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act contains a package of loan fee reductions, higher guarantees, new SBA programs, secondary market incentives, and enhancements to current SBA programs that will help unlock credit markets and begin economic recovery for the nation’s small business sector.

And it's keeping me employed :approve:.
 
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  • #543
lisab said:
I'm not well versed on this subject, but my company is a small business (in the last 2 months, we've gone from 110 employees to 77 today...getting smaller all the time!). My director told us we are relying on http://www.sba.gov/recovery/" , part of the stimulus bill, to get through the next half year or year or so.

It's part of the stimulus bill, and it's directed at small businesses.

From that link:

And it's keeping me employed :approve:.

That's awesome Lisa!

I found out the other day, that because I'm a veteran, I can apply for a half million dollar loan to start a business. Thank god for the http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/1010/42/375144.htm" button.

I can so relate with Michelle Obama when she talked about realizing why she really loved this country.
 
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  • #544
I should have been more specific...there is a very small percentage of funds allocated to the SBA...$730 million of $787 billion.

When you consider the cost of Harry Reid's train that starts at Disney and ends at a Nevada brothel...and was inserted at the very last moment...I believe the number is) $6billion.

Next, analyze the stimulus potential derived from $4 to $6 billion more for community organizing groups (like ACORN).

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/01/27/acorns-stimulus

Both of these allocations are a slap in the face to small business.

In the context of a discussion of jobs creation and stimulating the economy...an alternative investment of $10 to $12 billion into the SBA would have a tremendous stimulus impact as well as make a great deal more sense.

Plus, the railroad builders and community groups could still submit their "business plans" to create jobs and be considered for loans...I just doubt any bankers would approve them.

I hope your company is successful in their efforts...please keep us posted.
 
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  • #545
WhoWee said:
I hope your company is successful in their efforts...please keep us posted.

Ivan is first in line for pork barrel paybacks.

My company's business plan is to create a product that the planet would enjoy having.

And that, is how you fix an economy.
 
  • #546
lisab said:
I'm not well versed on this subject, but my company is a small business (in the last 2 months, we've gone from 110 employees to 77 today...getting smaller all the time!). My director told us we are relying on http://www.sba.gov/recovery/" , part of the stimulus bill, to get through the next half year or year or so.

It's part of the stimulus bill, and it's directed at small businesses.

From that link:

And it's keeping me employed :approve:.

Good for you.

Our national exports have dropped 36% and new orders 38,3% in January. It would mean about 10-15% decline in the GDP in 2009, which would be a new record. We are also in the euro-zone, so we are unable to let the currency float like in our "Great depression" in 90's. It will be interesting to see what is going to happen.
 
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  • #547
Obama or Geithner must have read these posts?

Today's announcement, of $15 billion in TARP funds for SBA (re-packaging)

http://www.startribune.com/nation/41335177.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUHPYDiaK7DUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

is by far the best stimulus initiative Obama has made to date. This will allow banks to re-open credit lines to small business...BRAVO Mr. President!
 
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  • #548
  • #549
Auto suppliers to get $5 billion in aid

Pssss!

Instead of giving out $5 billion to the B3 let's pay off their bills and hope nobody notices what we did.
Shuuush!

jal
 
  • #550
It might be the best way to actually help the economy and save the general industry. Big 3/union retiree benefits and retirement funds should not be prioritized above all other taxpayers.
 
  • #551
Astronuc said:
Meanwhile GE Financial will apparently be profitable in 1Q 2009.

Shhhh! Don't be spreading that around just yet. Wait until the next first Wednesday... :wink:
 
  • #552
Astronuc said:
Meanwhile GE Financial will apparently be profitable in 1Q 2009.
Better than many of its manufacturing divisions. GE Security is the largest employer in Pittsfield, ME, with about 500 employees at its peak. They let go of 30 employees in December, and are currently offering voluntary separation to employees who will accept the severance package and some extended benefits. According to the news article in today's paper, they will have to shed at least another 100 jobs, perhaps significantly more, by May. With construction soft, the demand for electronic surveillance/monitoring systems is 'way down. The slump in new construction has already hit logging, lumber-production, etc very hard, and now it's affecting some pretty high-tech jobs, as well.
 
  • #553
A "small amount" of TARP funds ($5 to $10 billion?) would be very productive (if specified for US domestic allocation only) directly placed in the hands of GE Capital or other top 100 large ticket leasing companies.

These companies have in-place and on-going relationships with both manufacturers (vendor lease programs) and users of capital equipment (everything from computer systems to manufacturing lines to mining equipment to windmills/solar installations to aircraft and ships).

This would provide a three-pronged approach...continue to assist the large banks with re-balancing of their portfolios, continue to help the smaller/community banks with the SBA portfolio buy-up and create a direct loan program to the large ticket leasing industry to re-open business credit/purchases...which will create/protect jobs.
 
  • #554
It looks like various financial institutions are return TARP money back to Treasury. That seems a good sign for institutions like GS, but maybe not for others.

If Goldman Returns Aid, Will Others?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/business/24sorkin.html

Goldman Sachs is planning to give back its TARP money soon, possibly within the next month, Andrew Ross Sorkin reports in his latest DealBook column.

The taxpayer would be made whole under this scenario -- but the news isn't necessarily all good, Mr. Sorkin writes. If Goldman sets itself apart by repaying the money it borrowed, there is a risk that its rivals may feel the need to follow suit, even if they aren't financially ready to do so. This could end up costing them, Mr. Sorkin says.
 
  • #555
I received this today and thought it was relevant. It's a newsletter from the CEO of TheLadders.com. They are a nationwide executive recruiting firm... have the TV commercial with all of the people chasing tennis balls all at once.

"I went down to Florida last weekend to the Club for Growth conference. The Club for Growth is pro-growth group, and I think we are all in favor of that – we aren't going to shrink our way out of this mess, now are we?

I wanted to find out more about what the heck we can do to get more great $100K+ jobs in this country. And I met with Senators, Governors and members of Congress to ask them "Who's going to fix this mess?"

<photo>

Me with Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl. Boy, he has a great smile, doesn't he? I guess I'll have to practice!

Among others, I met with Senator Jon Kyl – he's a Republican from Arizona – and I asked him my question: "Senator Kyl, who's going to fix this mess?"

His answer?

"You are."

And you knew that was coming, didn't you? After all the big speeches, the bonuses and the blowouts and the bailouts, who's going to be left to clean up this mess?

It's us. The members of TheLadders.com.

TheLadders is a community of $100K+ employees. We're not the ones with the big yachts and million-dollar offices and private jets (though, perhaps, someday we'd like to be!) We're the hard-working folks, making between $100,000 to $500,000, who actually orchestrate the work of the country...

We're the managers at Fortune 1000 companies, the CMOs, CFOs and CTOs of start-ups, and the Java developers, Sarbanes-Oxley experts and database marketers of the United States...

And we know that after the hoopla and the hoorays, and the "whoops!" and the whys, that we are going to be the people who have to clean up this mess.

After all, who's running the strategic planning meetings, and the Six Sigma initiatives, and the server virtualization projects, and the "Hey vendors, it's time for you to cut your prices 10%" efforts? It's not the guys in the corporate boardrooms.

It's us. The 2.8 million subscribers to TheLadders.com.

And the only way this great country is going to get out of this mess is if we lead it.

And, after reminding Senator Kyl that TheLadders is a strictly non-partisan newsletter, I asked him what we can specifically do to help.

He answered:
Get involved politically. Whatever party you're in, get active.

Get involved through civic groups. Whether you're a CPA, or a member of the bar, or a concerned tech executive, or just a patriotic citizen from Youngstown, get active through your civil, professional, or industry associations.

But most of all, Senator Kyl urged, don't wait for Washington. This country wasn't built from Washington, and it sure isn't going to be saved by Washington. It's going to be the efforts, and the toil, and the work, of the real leaders of the country – people like you who can make a difference every day by making your companies and your communities stronger and better.
Well, folks, that seemed like pretty good advice to me, so I wanted to share it with you.

I know you'll do your part, and you can count on me, and the 325 friends you have here at TheLadders.com, to do ours: we're working every day to find you more great $100K+ jobs.

Happy hunting this week, let's get this mess fixed!
Warmest regards,

Marc Cenedella
Founder & CEO
TheLadders.com, Inc. "
 
  • #556
  • #557
Astronuc said:
I found this yesterday.

Total: Allocated - $12.9 trillion, Spent - $2.7 trillion!

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bailout_scorecard/index.html

The allocated money is almost one year's GDP for the US.

Now this was before some companies announced their intent to give back TARP money.

I hope someone is keeping track. The plans seem rather fluid.

I honestly don't remember the first one:

December 2007 Term Auction Facility $2.9 trillion

Lending program that allows commercial banks to unload hard-to-sell assets, including mortgage-backed securities: Fed takes assets as collateral and banks get cash.
 
  • #558
OmCheeto said:
I honestly don't remember the first one:

It's just one more reason not to give the Fed or Treasury any more power*.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/term-auction-facility.asp


* That is...as long as Barney Frank and company are permitted to sit in judgment and claim they didn't know they were hurting the financial sector with their housing programs.

ALL subprime and over-leveraged borrowings should have been halted in 2007.

If you really want to get mad...look at the expansion of derivatives trading during the same time periods.

Next, overlay the media diversion of the same time frame...100% focus on spending in Iraq...it's called "smoke and mirrors".

The same thing happened last week...OHH look at the big $165 million AIG bonuses...we'll tax them back...(never mind about half of the recipients live in the UK). Glenn Beck reported today that Acorn organized/hired the buses that took people to the CT homes of AIG execs. Even better, Chris Dodd couldn't remember presiding over including the payments, everyone admits they didn't even read the bill, lot's of reports that the bonus structure was known for months, etc.


But alas, nobody seemed to care that $20 billion or so was funneled through AIG to foreign banks...at 100% on the dollar! Where is the outrage? Why isn't Barney Frank threatening to sieze assets of the foreign banks? Why aren't we demanding the names of who authorized $20 billion to be paid to these banks?


If the government wants to fix a business, they should start with the Postal Service. The Fed is already too powerful and needs to be separated from politics...and the Treasury needs to figure out what they've already done and where the money went. If a taxpayer told the IRS they don't know what happened to the money...well...?
 
  • #559
WhoWee said:
It's just one more reason not to give the Fed or Treasury any more power*.
If a taxpayer told the IRS they don't know what happened to the money...well...?

Oh. I'm here again...

Sounds like Fiona was running the country for the last.. few.. years...



:devil:

:rolleyes:
 
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  • #560
Financial Crisis Caused by a 'Culture of Complicity'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,614297,00.html

I heard a discussion of this topic on a news program, CNN I believe. The commentator was arguing to let the banks fail, the banks be restructured, management to be replaced.

While the world talks about new ways to save struggling banks, there are a handful of economists who think some banks shouldn't be saved at all. American economist James Galbraith told Manager Magazin that it might make more sense to break them up and start over.
. . . .

. . . The way it usually works in the USA is that a bank is closed on Friday and re-opened on Monday under a new name, with a new leadership and with a team of examiners who are going through the books, trying to sort the good business loans and personal loans from those which are hopeless. Then you isolate the hopeless stuff, you force a write down of the equity and the subordinated debts of the people who put in risk capital -- so they have to take their losses as they should. And then you break up the bank into pieces which have a better prospect to gain viability soon. That's a process of re-organization and re-capitalization.
. . . .
Galbraith: A change of management is essential, because firstly, the incumbents are responsible, whether they were culpable or not, and secondly, you need new people who are in line with the public purpose of this re-organization. It's the same principle in the navy: When a ship runs aground, the captain is removed, no matter if he caused the accident or not. . . .
. . . .
Galbraith: . . . Again: When the bank runs aground, there have to be consequences. The management has no claim on sympathy. They won't be poor. They have enough to send their kids to college. Some of them may have to sell some houses or boats. This is not a sad thing -- this is called the capitalist system. Well, it used to be called the capitalist system. Do we still have a capitalist system somewhere? China, maybe? (laughs) It's certainly a life change for them, but there's no human tragedy involved in changing the management of an insolvent bank.

. . . .
Galbraith: I sincerely hope the bank management conducted some due diligence with the products they bought. And if they relied on agency ratings, they should have asked whether the agencies were working on their behalf. But I am very sure that, again, the answer is 'no'. The rating agencies made a mess by rating asset backed securities with AAA, so we're seeing a failure of due diligence at every stage. And a deep fraudulence at every stage. When a rating agency certifies that a security is AAA, it is making a claim about the quality of that security. It cannot make this claim unless it has closely looked at this security...
. . . .
Galbraith: . . . The language they used reveals a different story than the one bank managers are selling to the public these days. "Liars' loans," "toxic waste," or my favorite: "neutron loans" -- loans that destroy the people but leave the buildings intact. These were the words to describe these loans and they were used by the people who were working in this industry. They reveal a culture of fraudulence on a massive scale. And of course governments now have to come to recognize that these are things they have to deal with.
. . . .
Not only was the economy over-leveraged, but it seems a lot of debt was bad, i.e. it could not be repaid, especially when other expenses consumed available cash/liquity.

In another article, it appears (circumstantially) that a trading arm of Goldman Sachs was bidding up the price of oil against short positions on a company, Semgroup, that was expecting prices to go down. Semgroup went bankrupt, and the high oil prices further damaged the economy. In effect, it seems that GS was bidding against the US economy for their own benefit.

So in effect, the bailouts, as structured, reward the financial companies who are responsible for the current financial crisis. AIG gets bailout money, but that gets sent to the companies (banks and private investment firms) who bought the insurance on questionable (fraudelent) securities, but those banks and private investment firms also received direct injections of capital from the bailout funds. There's something wrong with this situation.

It seems to me that there should be a heck of a lot of criminal prosecutions going. I have to wonder if the government is even bothering to investigate, because it not, if they ever get around to it, they'll probably claim to much time has elapsed.
 
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  • #561
Astronuc said:
...It seems to me that there should be a heck of a lot of criminal prosecutions going. .
For what? Some new ex post facto we don't like you law?
 
  • #562
mheslep said:
For what? Some new ex post facto we don't like you law?
Fraud for starters. I read where at least two people at Merrill Lynch exchanged emails about how bad were the investments they were pedalling. Those two I believe were indicted, but I have to wonder if they were the only two involved.

There were fraudulent mortgages filed, some of which were later bundled into securities (MBSs). Then there are all those securities sold as AAA investments without any due diligence (on the part of ratings agencies and the financial companies that later sold them), and in fact, those investments were not AAA. That's fraud. Then there is the apparent market manipulation in commodities, such as oil, which is under investigation.


Meanwhile -

White House questions viability of GM, Chrysler
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_autos
WASHINGTON – Neither General Motors nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more federal bailout money, the Obama administration said as it set the stage for a crisis in Detroit that would dramatically reshape the nation's auto industry.

The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.

In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.

Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.

. . . .
 
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  • #563
I think Obama has too much on his plate. I'm not sure who exactly (in the White House) has the prerequisite experience to run GM (or any multi-national company). If it was easy, experienced auto executives would have figured it out by now.

Forcing them to build to MORE restrictive standards isn't going to improve profitability in the short term...it only advances a green political agenda.

GM has 3 problems...1.) Union agreements, 2.) Government standards, and 3.) Overpriced/un-financiable vehicles.

This is a lot closer to what a small personal vehicle SHOULD cost...$2,000 to $5,000...not $15,000+.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-india-car24-2009mar24,0,3689671.story

There's an old saying (basically)..."you can't run anything by committee". Now Obama (who has never personally run a public company) thinks he can appoint a committee of "car-czars" to oversee the boards (another committee) of GM and Chrysler and dictate to the executive management team of these companies...it won't work.

I wonder if the shareholders will have recourse against Obama...hmmm?
 
  • #564
WhoWee said:
Forcing them to build to MORE restrictive standards isn't going to improve profitability in the short term...it only advances a green political agenda.

GM has 3 problems...1.) Union agreements, 2.) Government standards, and 3.) Overpriced/un-financiable vehicles.

This is a lot closer to what a small personal vehicle SHOULD cost...$2,000 to $5,000...not $15,000+.

The only problem GM has, is that the customers don't see value in it's cars. The management has made terrible strategic decisions and destroyed the company. They have had decades to work this out, but apparently they had better things to do and now the sandglass is empty.
 
  • #565
This is a nice pro-Obama piece. Apparently, Obama has "20 years of experience"...unfortunately, none running a public - for profit corp - it appears.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/mar/07/obamas-20-years-experience/

Obama's 20 years of experience

By Angie Drobnic Holan
Published on Friday, March 7th, 2008 at 12:31 p.m.

Related rulings:
True
"I've spent 20 years devoted to working on behalf of families who are having a tough time and are seeking out the American dream."

Barack Obama, Tuesday, February 26th, 2008.

Ruling: True | Details
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SUMMARY: Though often described as an upstart or newcomer, Barack Obama has a solid resume in public service work — 20 years' worth, in fact.

In a race where his opponent Sen. Hillary Clinton has touted "35 years of experience" over and over, Sen. Barack Obama has begun to cite his own experience of 20 years. At a debate in Cleveland, moderator Brian Williams asked Obama to respond to Clinton's charges that he was heavy on oratory and light on action. Obama said:

"You know, she characterizes it typically as speeches, not solutions, or talk versus action. And as I said in the last debate, I've spent 20 years devoted to working on behalf of families who are having a tough time and they're seeking out the American dream. That's how I started my career in public service."

The voters will decide if the gap between 20 and 35 years is significant, but we find Obama's claim of two decades of experience to be accurate. We also find that just about all of his experience is in the field of public service, education or civil rights law.

For our examination, we looked at Obama's official congressional biography, his professional resume and news articles chronicling his political rise in Illinois.

If Obama wins election and takes office in January 2009, he will have served four years in the U.S. Senate representing Illinois.

Before that, he was a state senator in Illinois for eight years. He was also a senior lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School during that time.

His schedule from the school shows him teaching two or three classes in the fall and winter terms — usually Constitutional Law III: Equal Protection and Substantive Due Process; Voting Rights and the Democratic Process; and Current Issues in Racism and the Law. In the spring, he would attend the Illinois legislative sessions. It seems a fairly safe bet that, like most legislators, his constituent work — fielding phone calls and helping people in his district — went on year-round. Press reports indicate he would do a small amount of private law practice during the summer. So that's eight years as a public official in Illinois, bringing our total to 12 years.

To get to 20 years of experience, we still need eight years from Obama's career prior to holding public office. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983. He worked for a year as a financial analyst; in his memoir he said he spent his days behind a computer terminal, "checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages across the globe" and feeling like "a spy behind enemy lines." He gave up that job to go into community organizing, work he felt was more important politically. He worked three years as a community organizer in Chicago before going to Harvard Law School. We won't count the junior-level business experience as working "on behalf of families who are having a hard time," but the community organizing work does seem to fit the bill. That brings his work experience to 15 years.

At Harvard, Obama began to receive national attention. He became the first black president of the Harvard Law Review and was recruited heavily by law firms around the country. (He met his future wife, Michelle Robinson, as a summer associate at the Chicago firm Sidley Austin.)

He graduated in 1991. He ran Illinois Project Vote, a voter registration drive, for much of 1992, and then accepted a position with the Chicago firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland. The firm specialized in political and civil rights work and neighborhood economic development work. He also began teaching at the University of Chicago in 1993. He was elected to the Illinois state Senate in 1996 and took office in 1997, so his full-time work after law school comprises five years. That gets us to 20 years.

(During these years, Obama also worked on his career as an author. His memoir Dreams from my Father was published in 1994 and reprinted after his speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004. A follow-up, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream, was published in 2006. His personal financial disclosure statements show that those books earned him $1.8-million in 2005 and 2006, the majority of his income.)

The other part of Obama's claim is that his experience is "on behalf of families who are having a tough time and are seeking out the American dream." We take that to mean his experience is broadly in the field of public service, and that too is an accurate claim. The bulk of Obama's professional experience is either in elected office or working for a nonprofit, a university or a civil rights law firm.

We looked at Hillary Clinton's claim to 35 years of experience and found it to be Mostly True.

Voters will decide whether the gap between 35 years and 20 years of experience is significant, but we found Obama's statement about his own experience to be True.
As for GM's problems...from my previous post...the $12,000 US car costs more than 3 others combined... $2,200 + $3,800 + $5,000...3 cars for $11,000 or 1 car for $12,000?

The Nano will start at $2,200 after taxes and dealer costs, while the more expensive CX and LX models with heat, air conditioning and power brakes will go for as much as $3,800.



* The Nano
Photos: The Nano
* Up to Speed: The Times auto blog
Up to Speed: The Times auto blog

None of the models, made by India's giant Tata conglomerate, carry air bags or anti-lock brakes. But they will meet or exceed all Indian safety standards, company officials said.

"I hope it will provide safe, affordable four-wheel transportation to families who until now have not been able to own a car," Ratan Tata, company chairman, told reporters.

Amid the applause and homegrown pride at India's accomplishments, however, some here expressed concern about the environmental impact of a "people's car" so inexpensive that it will be within reach of millions more people, further clogging the roads and polluting the air.

"At this time, when India is just beginning to motorize, it's absolutely essential that we grow differently and not become as car-centric as the rest of the world," said Anumita Roychowdhury, associate director of the Center for Science and Environment in New Delhi. "It's a natural aspiration that people want to own a car, but it's important to offer public transportation options."

FOR THE RECORD:
An earlier version of this article said the Nano has the smallest footprint and turning radius of any car in the world. According to the company, it has the smallest footprint among cars in India.The initial focus will be on the Indian market and its rising middle class, but the company plans to roll out a more expensive European version in 2011 with air bags and better emissions and safety ratings. It may also consider a model for the U.S. market.

China's Cherry QQ car sells for about $4,800 and India's Suzuki Maruti 800 for about $5,000. The least expensive U.S. car is the basic Chevrolet Aveo, with a nearly $12,000 base price. Nissan offers its subcompact Versa model in the U.S. at a base price of $9,999.
 
  • #566
True - Obama doesn't have 20 years experience as a corporate executive. But the managers at GM, Chrysler, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, . . . all had executives with at least 20 years experience - and look where they are now.

Just because Obama has run a company doesn't mean that he doesn't understand the concepts. Obama also has numerous advisors, including folks like Warren Buffett. Hopefully he's getting and heeding good advice.

How many Senators and congresspersons have run for-profit corporations.

Chuck Hagel is one of whom I can think of the top of my head.
 
  • #567
So true. Many of those "businessmen" in banking and in the Big 3 would probably fail miserably if they had to operate a small business. Starting a small business from scratch, staying on-budget, growing the business while maintaining quality are difficult things to do. I started two such business (custom programming for small businesses, and technical consulting for pulp and paper mills). The first one I sold to a friend for a nominal fee when I got a good offer from General Physics, and he promptly dropped the ball and lost all the customers I handed him (law firms, manufacturers, trucking companies...). The second business, I left voluntarily but reluctantly when my health started to fail. I had to manage all aspects of each business, do all the work, comply with state and federal tax laws, stay properly insured for liability, etc... I never worked so hard in my life, but I didn't mind - it was all mine. It would be good if Washington and state governments would simplify things for small businesses. Businesses that are "too big to fail" are too big, period, and individuals and small businesses should not have to sacrifice to prop them up.
 
  • #568
Astronuc said:
... Then there are all those securities sold as AAA investments without any due diligence (on the part of ratings agencies and the financial companies that later sold them), and in fact, those investments were not AAA. That's fraud.
No. Failure to perform due diligence is specifically not fraud. It is negligence, a civil matter, if it can in fact be shown that no due diligence was performed.

Then there is the apparent market manipulation in commodities, such as oil, which is under investigation. ...
How is it 'apparent' that there was market manipulation? Because the price of oil spiked at the same time India and China's oil usage was soaring? The CFTC has 60 odd investigations open at anyone time. How does this justify the prior statement that "there should be a heck of a lot of criminal prosecutions going"?

I'm all for calling out irresponsible behaviour, but I find scatter shot calls for 'criminal prosecutions' of US citizens based on no particular charges also irresponsible and outrageous.
 
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  • #570
Astronuc said:
True - Obama doesn't have 20 years experience as a corporate executive. But the managers at GM, Chrysler, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, . . . all had executives with at least 20 years experience - and look where they are now.

Just because Obama has run a company doesn't mean that he doesn't understand the concepts. Obama also has numerous advisors, including folks like Warren Buffett. Hopefully he's getting and heeding good advice.

How many Senators and congresspersons have run for-profit corporations.

Chuck Hagel is one of whom I can think of the top of my head.



Let's be accurate, Obama doesn't have ANY business or management experience.


While Chapter 11 can break union contracts...executives can't do anything about government regulation.

The problem of consulting in private with any top level or high profile advisors like Warren Buffet or George Soros or T. Boone Pickens or Bill Gates or ANYONE else who operates a public company or trades shares of public companies...is insider trading rules.

They are very restricted...legally.

These advisors have not turned their investments over to 3rd party management firm while they serve the government. An advisor can not even appear to have a potential unfair advantage over other investors from granting their advice. It isn't even fair to ask them to put themselves (and investors) into a situation with potential questions of future impropriety. ANY knowledge gained from a private meeting...

Look what happens when Chris Dodd gets favorable treatment by Angelo or funding from AIG...lot's of questions result.

One only needs to look at another current event...oversight/scrutiny of Bernie Madoff might have been overlooked because of his past associations...he was a "good guy"...above suspicion.

Obama taught Constitutional law...obviously he knows the role of the Executive Branch...it looks like he wants to test all of the boundaries.
 

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