Can the Passage Principle Explain Cross-Nature Movement in Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of cross-nature movement in physics, specifically whether a principle can explain the ability of entities from different 'natures' to pass through barriers that separate them. The inquiry touches on theoretical implications and examples from various contexts, rather than being a homework-related question.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Jon_C proposes that if one entity can pass through a barrier into another nature, then the reverse should also be possible, suggesting a fundamental principle of passage.
  • Danger challenges Jon_C's conclusion, citing examples like turnstiles and biological pumps to argue that not all barriers allow for reciprocal movement.
  • Jon_C clarifies that he is interested in the principle behind established passages, using examples such as needles, boats, and spacecraft to illustrate his point about potential mutual access.
  • A later reply emphasizes the vagueness of 'barriers' and 'natures,' arguing that the properties of both influence whether reciprocal passage is possible.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of Jon_C's examples, with critiques suggesting they illustrate one-way movement rather than mutual access.
  • Participants express that the conclusion drawn from the examples may need reevaluation, indicating a lack of consensus on the validity of the proposed principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity of Jon_C's conclusion regarding mutual access through barriers. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of barriers and the examples provided, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining 'natures' and 'barriers,' as well as the dependence of conclusions on specific properties and contexts. There are unresolved aspects regarding the examples used and their implications for the proposed principle.

Jon_C
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I'm interested in learning the physic's principle to the following query. It's not homework. Just wanting to learn what I'm presuming is a fundamental in physics.

If two natures exist separated by a barrier and an entity or element from one nature (first) uses a gateway to enter into the other nature (second), then, presumably, an entity or element from the second nature could, likewise, use the same gateway to enter the first nature.

Thanks for any feedback or insights,

Jon_C
 
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Although I don't know the precise nature of your scenario, your conclusion is incorrect. There are plenty of examples to the contrary. Turnstiles, check valves, the biological sodium pump, etc..
 
Danger, thanks for your reply.

I apologize if I was being too vague in my query.

The examples you provided are good, however, I trust that they are examples of manufactured containment or control of the passageway.

The principle I'm seeking is regarding if a passage is established that allows for one nature to pass through a barrier, which had separated two different natures, allowing the first nature to enter into the second, then, presumably, the second nature would be capable to access the same passage to enter into the first.

For example;
A needle pierces through the skin and injects a solution into the body. As the needle is removed from the skin, the puncture continues to exist (the opening or passage) and allows for blood to exit from the body.

Here's a different type of example;
Pilgrims get on a boat and travel across the ocean from one continent to a second continent. After the pilgrims enter into the second continent the natives of the second continent use the boat to travel back across the ocean and enter into the first continent.

And, another;
An astronaut flies a spacecraft onto a distant planet. He enters onto the planet. A microorganism from the planet enters into the spacecraft and returns to the astronaut's home planet.

So, essentially, once a barrier, seperating two natures, is opened, then, regardless of which nature enters first, theorhetically, the second nature has an equal opportunity to access the passage and enter into the first.
 
EDIT: Let me just preface this by saying that 'barriers' connecting 'natures' is to vague for a meaningful answer as your question ultimately depends on the properties of the 'natures' and the 'barriers'.

EDIT 2: Don't call your idea a 'principal', people will be (slightly) less likely to take you seriously.

The examples you provided are good, however, I trust that they are examples of manufactured containment or control of the passageway.

Allot of stuff both natural and unnatural is one way or favors one way like Danger has said... even in the natural subatomic particles themselves. The process of time itself. We can give counter-examples all day but let's try something else...

Your trying to draw a conclusion that if you went from one 'nature' to another 'nature' then someone from the other 'nature' should be able to cross over to your 'nature' as easily as you went into theirs... I don't see any reason this should be.

Also, your examples are flawed.

A needle pierces through the skin and injects a solution into the body. As the needle is removed from the skin, the puncture continues to exist (the opening or passage) and allows for blood to exit from the body.
The pressure you put on the plunger makes it much easier to leave the needle to go back inside... this is really an example of a one-way portal.

Pilgrims get on a boat and travel across the ocean from one continent to a second continent. After the pilgrims enter into the second continent the natives of the second continent use the boat to travel back across the ocean and enter into the first continent.
Not if the ship was disassembled, or crashed on shore... In which case it would be more of a one way portal.

An astronaut flies a spacecraft onto a distant planet. He enters onto the planet. A microorganism from the planet enters into the spacecraft and returns to the astronaut's home planet.
Not if the ship is out of fuel... then it would be a perfect one way portal.

So, essentially, once a barrier, separating two natures, is opened, then, regardless of which nature enters first, theoretically, the second nature has an equal opportunity to access the passage and enter into the first.
If you drew that conclusion from your examples (or similar) I would reevaluate your claim.

I'm interested in learning the physic's principle to the following query. It's not homework. Just wanting to learn what I'm presuming is a fundamental in physics.
Next time, start with a physics principal and then draw conclusions from that. It's when you start trying to go the other way that you start turning in Ramtha.
 
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