Can the Sets A and B be Considered Elements in a Sigma-Algebra?

  • Thread starter Thread starter P3X-018
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of sets A and B defined in the context of a sigma-algebra generated by a system of sets, specifically examining whether these sets can be considered elements of the sigma-algebra or merely subsets. The sets are defined in relation to inequalities involving real numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore whether sets A and B are elements of the sigma-algebra generated by the system of sets, questioning their classification as subsets or elements. There are attempts to express set C as a union involving set S and to understand the implications of expressing S through intersections of sets related to A.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants offering differing views on the classification of sets A and B. Some express uncertainty about the nature of set S and its relationship to the sigma-algebra, while others reflect on the definitions and properties of the sets involved. There is no explicit consensus, but several productive lines of inquiry are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the definition of the system of sets \mathbb{D} and its implications for the classification of A and B. The discussion also touches on the convergence of set S and its relevance to the original question about the sigma-algebra.

P3X-018
Messages
144
Reaction score
0
If we define two sets as

A = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x+y<a \right\}
B = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x-y<a \right\}

and then define the system of sets,

\mathbb{D} = \left\{A\vert a\in \mathbb{R}\right\}\cup\left\{B\vert a\in \mathbb{R}\right\}

and then let \sigma(\mathbb{D}) be the \sigma-algebra generated by the system of set \mathbb{D}. To show that the sets

C = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x+y\leq a \right\}
D = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x-y\leq a \right\}

are elements in \sigma(\mathbb{D}) for every a\in \mathbb{R}.
Some questions arises. Can the sets A and B be considered as elements in \mathbb{D} and hence in \sigma(\mathbb{D}) too, or are they just subsets of \mathbb{D}?
Now I want to express C as a union of A and the set S = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x+y=a \right\}, and similar for D. But then I have to express the new set in some way to show that it is contained in \sigma(\mathbb{D}). (Maybe there are easier approaches?). I was considering to write the new set S as

S = \bigcap_{n=1}^{\infty}\left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x+y<a+\frac{1}{n} \right\}\cap \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \vert x+y\geq a \right\}

Where the last set is the complement of A. But will this set even converge towards S, or will it just be empty?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Last edited:
So A and B are elements in \sigma(\mathbb{D}), right? And yes \sigma(\mathbb{D}) is defined as the smallest \sigma-algebra containing \mathbb{D}.

Hmm... Now you have changed your answer of weather S is empty or not. I thought that maybe it would be non-empty because of the way we (in class) defined an interval of the type (a,b] as

(a,b] = \bigcap_{n=1}^{\infty}\left(a,\, b+\frac{1}{n}\right)

as a intersection of open intervals.
But hmm... then again maybe this wasn't even a good inspiration, since it seems different now that I type it...

But how would you suggest to write S from the 'building blocks' of \sigma(\mathbb{D})?

EDIT:
The question really is just, will the infinity intersection be

\bigcap_{n=1}^{\infty}\left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \,\vert\, x+y<a+\frac{1}{n}\right\} = \left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R} \,\vert\, x+y\leq a\right\}

Because that is the set I'm interested in. And that's why I considered that if (a,b] can be writting in that way, why can't the above equation be true?
By this expression S becomes completely useless, since I can just set C equal to that expression, and C will then consist of an infinite intersection of A sets. But then we're back to my first question, are A and B elements in the \sigma-algebra even though it is generated by the union of A and B, so that C is can be considered as an element in the algebra?
 
Last edited:
Ok instead of making yet another edit, I'll make a new reply, getting confusing wit so edits now.
I think I was confused about \mathbb{D}, since I saw it a union of 2 sets, but it's actually a union of 2 system of sets. So the \mathbb{D} is actually,

\mathbb{D} = \left\{ A \subset \mathbb{R}^2 \,\vert\, A\in \{A_a\,\vert\, a\in\mathbb{R}\}\quad\mathrm{or}\quad A\in \{B_a\,\vert\, a\in\mathbb{R}\} \right\}

and I think that it is clear from this, that A and B are contained in \mathbb{D} and hence also \sigma(\mathbb{D}).
 
I think I agree with
\bigcap_{n=1}^{\infty}\left\{ (x,y)\in \mathbb{R}^2 \,\vert\, x+y<a+1/n\right\} = \left\{ (x,y)\in\mathbb{R}^2\vert x+y\le a\right\}

I think I was right the first time, then confused myself with nested intervals.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K