Can total lunar eclipse and partial lunar eclipse happen at the same time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the possibility of a total lunar eclipse and a partial lunar eclipse occurring simultaneously. Participants explore the definitions and characteristics of both types of eclipses, as well as the implications of an illustration depicting these events.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a total lunar eclipse occurs when the Moon is fully in the Earth's umbra, while a partial lunar eclipse occurs when part of the Moon is in the penumbra, indicating that they cannot happen at the same time.
  • Others argue that while a total eclipse can be preceded and followed by partial eclipses, a partial eclipse does not guarantee a total eclipse will occur.
  • A participant questions the accuracy of an illustration that labels parts of the Moon as being in partial and total eclipse, seeking clarification on its representation.
  • Some participants emphasize that the definitions of total and partial lunar eclipses are mutually exclusive, stating that a lunar eclipse cannot be both total and partial at the same location simultaneously.
  • Another participant explains that the illustration shows different stages of the Moon's passage through the Earth's shadow, indicating that it depicts the progression from partial to total eclipse and back, rather than simultaneous occurrences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the interpretation of the illustration and the definitions of the eclipses, with multiple competing views remaining on whether total and partial eclipses can coexist in any form.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the need for clarity in definitions and the interpretation of visual representations of lunar eclipses, as well as the potential for misunderstanding based on different observational perspectives.

Jimin Lee
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Can total lunar eclipse and partial lunar eclipse be happened at the same time?
So, do we call it partial lunar eclipse when the total lunar eclipse happen just before?
 
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A total lunar eclipse occurs when the Moon is fully immersed in the Earth's umbra. In a partial lunar eclipse, part of the Moon is still in the Earth's penumbra. So no, they do not occur at the same time. In order to get to a full lunar eclipse the Moon has to pass through the penumbra and therefore there will always be a partial eclipse prior to and after a full lunar eclipse. However, a partial eclipse does not necessarily imply that there will be a total eclipse as the Moon could just pass the penumbra without ever entering the umbra.
 
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Orodruin said:
A total lunar eclipse occurs when the Moon is fully immersed in the Earth's umbra. In a partial lunar eclipse, part of the Moon is still in the Earth's penumbra. So no, they do not occur at the same time. In order to get to a full lunar eclipse the Moon has to pass through the penumbra and therefore there will always be a partial eclipse prior to and after a full lunar eclipse. However, a partial eclipse does not necessarily imply that there will be a total eclipse as the Moon could just pass the penumbra without ever entering the umbra.
Then, is this picture wrong?
the part of '부분 월식' means 'partial lunar eclipse',
and '개기 월식' means 'total lunar eclipse',
as you said that these 2 things cannot happen at the same time
 

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  • 020D4ED5-B6CB-40EB-9431-EEB9D5AA020B.jpeg
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Why would it be wrong? The Moon cannot be at two places at the same time.
 
Orodruin said:
Why would it be wrong? The Moon cannot be at two places at the same time.
I think that picture wants to show the route of total lunar eclipse.
 
Jimin Lee said:
I think that picture wants to show the route of total lunar eclipse.
Yes, and as I said, you need to go via a partial eclipse to get to the total eclipse. However, a partial eclipse can occur without ever reaching a total eclipse.
 
For purposes of recording or reporting or predicting a celestial event, the definitions of total and partial lunar eclipse are mutually exclusive. By such definition, a partial eclipse is never total, and by terms of experiential reference, a total eclipse can be seen to manifest first as partial, then as total, then back to partial, and only in some locations at one time, in others at other times, and in still others not at all. By celestial definition, a partial eclipse is one that is never total anywhere on Earth. Neither by celestial nor by experiential definitions can a lunar eclipse be both total and partial in the same place at the same time. A good basic exposition regarding lunar eclipses can be found here: https://www.space.com/15689-lunar-eclipses.html
 
Jimin Lee said:
Then, is this picture wrong?
the part of '부분 월식' means 'partial lunar eclipse',
and '개기 월식' means 'total lunar eclipse',
as you said that these 2 things cannot happen at the same time

(to reference a more ready presentation of your image, I opened it, right-clicked and selected copy image address, then wrapped the address (by pasting) inside [img ] [/img ] (without spaces) tags)

020d4ed5-b6cb-40eb-9431-eeb9d5aa020b-jpeg.jpg


The illustration is correct (though obviously not to scale), but it doesn't show, or purport to show, partial and total eclipse in the same place at the same time. It can be seen that the labeled indicators reference different parts of the illustration, and those different parts mean either different places at one time, or the same moon in different places at different times, not the moon in both partial and total eclipse in the same place at the same time.

In the illustration, the Sun and the Earth are in a fixed position (relatively), and the moon is illustrated by multiple images, i.e. by the 3 smaller circles along an arc at the right. One of the moon images is in the penumbra shown in the lower part of the illustration, one is in the umbra, shown in the middle part, and one is emerging into the penumbra shown in the upper part.

The reason for there being more than one moon circle is that more than one lunar time and place is being shown. The illustration shows the progression of the moon from penumbra, i.e. partial eclipse, through umbra, i.e. total eclipse, and following that another penumbra, i.e. another partial eclipse.
 

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  • 020d4ed5-b6cb-40eb-9431-eeb9d5aa020b-jpeg.jpg
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