Can Traveling Through a Black Hole Lead to Another Dimension?

[raccoon]

A new DIMENSION??

To Support the Theory of going into another dimension by traveling through a Black Hole.
Since Scientists say you can go to another dimension through a Black Hole, why not you go to another dimension by just going pass a Black Hole?

 

[cristo]

Who says you can go into another dimension if you enter a black hole? Even if someone did say this, what do passing a black hole have anything to do with this?

I think you need to read the PF guidelines regarding over speculative posts. The guidelines can be found here

 

[raccoon]

Well, can you tell me how to get to another dimension in any other way??

 

[cristo]

I'm not the one who's about to start wildly speculating! You made a statement which clearly has no reputable source to back it up, and therefore is not right for discussion here.

 

[raccoon]

Well, ok i'll stop. Please stop using offensive words.
I'm just being curious!

 

[raccoon]

And... scientists proved that it is possible to travel into another dimension by going into a black hole

 

[cristo]

Well, ok i'll stop. Please stop using offensive words.

I wasn't aware that any of the words I said were offensive; they definitely weren't meant in an offensive manner.

I'm just being curious!

There's nothing wrong with curiosity, but your post started in a way that was easily taken to be a crackpot post.

If you're interested in what happens when one falls into a black hole, then you may find the following useful: [As a rule of thumb, websites ending .edu can usually be trusted, as they are university webpages]

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/fall_in.html
http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html#q3

And... scientists proved that it is possible to travel into another dimension by going into a black hole

Please provide a source for this comment: i.e. a webpage or a book, or journal article where a "scientist" has said such a thing.

 

[raccoon]

Well, alright
Thanks for your advice and tips
where do you think I should be posting my threads?

 

[RetardedBastard]

And... scientists proved that it is possible to travel into another dimension by going into a black hole

Man, I need to start reading New Scientist again.

 

[chroot]

For starts, raccoon, you're not even using the word 'dimension' in the way that any scientist would use it. Therefore, no scientist has ever said anything like "going into a black hole allows you to travel to another dimension." In fact, there's nothing in existing physical theory which describes "other dimensions," nor anything at all in the physics of black holes that would suggest such a thing would happen.

You are misinterpreting statements regarding "worm holes," which are a particularly fragile solution of spacetime geometry which could allow travel from one place in the the universe to another very distant place. They do not involve any "other dimensions," and are so fragile that they almost certainly do not occur spontaneously in nature.

Most scientists would tell you that if you fell into a black hole, you'd simply wind up trapped inside it, and become part of its mass.

- Warren

 

[SpitfireAce]

Isn't the term crackpot post offensive, can't we call it a fuzzy physics post, or an educated guess post =)

 

[chroot]

Isn't the term crackpot post offensive, can't we call it a fuzzy physics post, or an educated guess post =)

We have standard here -- mollycoddling crackpots isn't part of them.

- Warren

 

[cristo]

Isn't the term crackpot post offensive, can't we call it a fuzzy physics post, or an educated guess post =)

Plus (since I presume this was aimed at me) I never laid into the OP saying he was a crackpot, just that his post was easily taken to be a crackpot post. It's a lot more productive to take this stance first, rather than get lured into discussing this by a potential crackpot (as chroot hints at above).

 

[setAI]

words have different meanings in different contexts and fields- in science and mathematics dimensions are degrees of freedom- but there isn't a scientist that doesn't also know the more common colloquial term 'dimension' refers to different space-time regions-

it is a little harsh to simply criticize the poster for using the informal pop-culture term 'dimension' when you know what they mean and when you also know that most people would only have heard space-time regions called 'other dimensions' in the first place- it's not an appropriate reason to vent one's frustrations of imprecise usage of terms by the masses-

also- there are many published ideas by scientists which posit that black-holes either generate new space-time regions Smolin CNS or connect to different space-time regions Kerr et al-

so the poster's question wasn't wrong at all- he is only guilty of using the vernacular terminology that one SHOULD expect from a layperson- so I don’t understand the rebuke

 

[marcus]

setAI, in my opinion you are mistaken on several points. It seems to me you may have posted without reading the thread carefully.

Also I don't know where you get the notion that "the masses" use the word dimension to mean region.

In my pop-sci and sci-fi days when someone disappeared into the fifth dimension or emerged ghostlike from a different dimension they were definitely coming out of some orthogonal reality. Not merely a different region of our familiar world, but a whole other DIMENSION.

I seriously question your assertion about "what every scientist knows" regarding popular usage.

it is a little harsh to simply criticize the poster for using the informal pop-culture term 'dimension' when you know what they mean and when you also know that most people would only have heard space-time regions called 'other dimensions' in the first place- it's not an appropriate reason to vent one's frustrations of imprecise usage of terms by the masses-

setAI, you are misrepresenting Chroot's post, or you just didn't read it very well. Chroot was the first to object to poster's use of the word "dimension" and he did not "vent" criticism at the poster. he just ADVISED poster that he was using the word wrongly.

Chroot said

For starts, raccoon, you're not even using the word 'dimension' in the way that any scientist would use it. Therefore, no scientist has ever said anything like "going into a black hole allows you to travel to another dimension."

that is correct. Raccoon needs to be told that. And we all benefit from having some modest standards regarding the use of language. If we start equating "dimension" = "region" we'll get all screwed up and be forever talking at cross purposes.
====================

also- there are many published ideas by scientists which posit that black-holes either generate new space-time regions Smolin CNS or connect to different space-time regions Kerr et al-

So what? Raccoon wasnt talking about that, he was talking about you or me 'going through' a black hole. Surely the first thing he needs to be told is that this is a bad idea. He should better try to go thru a coffee grinder.

words have different meanings in different contexts and fields- in science and mathematics dimensions are degrees of freedom- but there isn't a scientist that doesn't also know the more common colloquial term 'dimension' refers to different space-time regions-

I just find this absurd, setAI. As I told you in my experience of sci-fi and popularized science, dimension never meant region. I strongly doubt what you claim about "all scientists" (or words to that effect.)

so the poster's question wasn't wrong at all- he is only guilty of using the vernacular terminology that one SHOULD expect from a layperson- so I don’t understand the rebuke

Poster's question was based on several mistakes. He didnt get rebuked so much as simply stopped cold in his tracks.

A. Don't say dimension when you mean region.
B. Don't claim that any qualified scientist believes you can go thru black holes, to anywhere.
C. Back up such questionable claims with a link, or don't make them.

I think the only person in this thread who is "venting" inappropriate criticism is you, setAI. On the other hand, I could be mistaken. If you think I am being inappropriately critical of your post, would you please let me know?

thanks

 

[setAI]

whatever marcus- I am not going to argue with you- but you should be aware that you are wrong about the folk use of 'dimension' - it is often used in non-scientific culture when referring to other 'universes' or spactime regions- in pop culture [not pop science literature- just pop literature and fantasy/sci-fi] 'other dimensions'='another universe'='other realms'=etc- in fact I just saw an old episode of Blake 7 on DVD [dawn of the gods] where that terminology was used- [it was even in Disney's "the Black Hole which is still the most commonly known source of ANY information about black holes that society has had]

the problem here is not science- but cultural divide- because of nitpicking everyone is too worried about the poster's sloppy terminology- fine to correct him on that- but what about answering/correcting the actual question? anyone reading the original post realizes that he is referring to the ideas from Kerr/Smolin/etc about wormholes from rotating black holes-

no you cannot send a monkey alive through a black hole [probably]- but there are plenty of ideas and solutions to rotating/charged [physical] black holes that suggest information/ even certain types of matter can survive a journey through Kerr/etc ring singularities [don't know if there are any ideas about information survivng a Bojowald Bounce]- etc-etc- all quite speculative but based on various types of black holes with rotation and charge-


we are talking about the most extreme speculative theoretical objects here- condescending arrogance has no legitimacy in such a discussion- especially toward laypeople and children

 

[cristo]

whatever marcus- I am not going to argue with you- but you should be aware that you are wrong about the folk use of 'dimension'

Huh? I'm with marcus on this one. Dimension does not mean "another region of spacetime," and I have never heard this description used anywhere in sci-fi or other places. I'm not saying that there is no-one who uses this terminology, just that if there are, they are small in comparison with the number of people that use the word dimension properly. Besides, this is a science forum, and I would assume people using common, scientific definitions as opposed to obscure sci-fi related ones.

edit (since you've edited the above post)

anyone reading the original post realizes that he is referring to the ideas from Kerr/Smolin/etc about wormholes from rotating black holes-

Do they? Well, I'm afraid I didn't. I read the opening post as it was written.

condescending arrogance has no legitimacy in such a discussion

Who is this comment aimed at? Who is being condescending or arrogant? I suggest if you suspect such a thing, then you report the post to the moderators immediately.

 

[setAI]

so Cristo you are saying you have never seen The Black Hole/ Space 1999/ Dr Who/ Sliders? all of these featured episodes where BHs and wormholes lead to 'new dimensions' that are revealed as simply parallel spacetime regions- usually filled to the brim with Lovecraftian monsters-

this is clearly a case where scientifically inclined seem to be wholly ignorant of how the greater culture has adapted their ideas- if you asked people on the street what a dimension was- nearly all of them would say 'a parallel world'- only a few nerds like us would even have heard of orthogonal degrees-of-freedom- you do realize that right?

 

[marcus]

so Cristo you are saying you have never seen The Black Hole/ Space 1999/ Dr Who/ Sliders? all of these featured episodes where BHs and wormholes lead to 'new dimensions' that are revealed as simply parallel spacetime regions- usually filled to the brim with Lovecraftian monsters-

this is clearly a case where scientifically inclined seem to be wholly ignorant of how the greater culture has adapted their ideas-

If that is what this thread is supposed to be about, so be it. It that case could it perhaps be moved to some other forum, like Mind and Brain Science? Social Science and Humanities? or General Discussion?

 

[setAI]

If that is what this thread is supposed to be about, so be it. It that case could it perhaps be moved to some other forum, like Mind and Brain Science? or General Discussion?

well yeah! just move the post then direct the poster to a BH FAQ- and they can learn about E-R bridges and such on their own-

if you want to get to the meat then at least refer to some quality hard sci-fi by actual scientists like Greg Benford or Stephen Baxter to get an idea what really might be possible in terms of BHs and wormholes

 

[RetardedBastard]

Quite frankly, this thread has become very non reputable. I don't know if anyone will want to look back at this discussion so we should just lock it.

 

[chroot]

Let me make something very clear here. This website is primarily a means of educating the public about science.

When someone uses a term like 'dimension' in an inappropriate way, we have an obligation to correct it. We must all agree on the definitions of words to have any meaningful discussion, and, on this site, our consensus about definitions will always be that of the greater scientific community. It does not matter how the term 'dimension' is tossed about in science fiction or in Disney cartoons. At all. Period.

I didn't do it in a mean-spirited way, nor did I end my comments with a 'nitpick' about his word choice. I simply corrected the word choice, and moved on to the substance of his post -- I believed he was talking about worm holes, and described what they are from a scientist's perspective.

Furthermore, we've seen little clarification from raccoon about what exactly he means, or where exactly he's picked up these ideas. None of us -- including you, setAI -- are competent to tell anyone else what the original poster meant, or implied. Let it go.

- Warren

 

[raccoon]

Sorry for saying the word black hole I forgot it was soppose to be worm holeWhy are we not at the question?