Can two photons be at the same place at the same time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons, specifically whether two photons can occupy the same space simultaneously and the implications of such interactions. It explores concepts related to photon collisions, scattering, and the conservation of momentum and energy in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that since photons are bosons, they can indeed be at the same place at the same time, although the precise definition of a photon's position may be ambiguous.
  • There is a question about the meaningfulness of describing a collision between photons, with some suggesting that while photons typically pass through each other, they can scatter under certain conditions, albeit rarely.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for a clear measurement to determine if two photons are in the same location, suggesting that discussions without this context may lead to confusion.
  • Another participant questions how photons can interact given that they do not carry charge, hinting at the complexity of photon interactions and the role of radiative corrections.
  • There is mention of diagrams used to represent photon interactions, with some participants discussing the technical aspects of these representations.
  • A participant notes that the principle of coherence in lasers involves photons joining together, which may relate to the broader discussion of photon behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of photon interactions and the implications of photons being in the same location. There is no consensus on how to define or measure such interactions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of photon collisions and scattering.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity in defining photon position and the conditions under which photons may interact, indicating that the discussion is contingent on these definitions and assumptions.

AlexanderRios
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Since photons are bosons and do not follow the pauli exclusion principle, does this mean that two photons can be at the same place at the same time?

Is it meaningful to talk about a photon 'colliding' with another photon?

I mean, suppose we send two photons of the same color towards each other at an angle of 60 degrees between them, and they meet. Is that a 'collision'?

Do the photon's directions change and just add up vectorially? I'm thinking that since the photon speeds can't add up, and must stay the same, since they already travel at the speed of light, how can momentum be conserved? Does one absorb the other? How about energy conservation?
 
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AlexanderRios said:
Since photons are bosons and do not follow the pauli exclusion principle, does this mean that two photons can be at the same place at the same time?

Yes. (Though technically there is a sense in which the position of a photon isn't perfectly well defined in the first place).

AlexanderRios said:
Is it meaningful to talk about a photon 'colliding' with another photon?

Sure. Most of the time photons pass through each other without affecting each other, but sometimes (very rarely) they scatter off each other. The probability of scattering is extremely small unless the photons have extremely high energy. When scattering occurs the final directions of the photons can only be predicted probabilistically.

But note that it's not necessary for two particles to be in exactly the same place in order for them to scatter off each other. For example, electrons can scatter off each other. In this case the scattering is caused by the electric repulsion between the two electrons.
 
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To have a sensible discussion, you need to describe what sort of measurement that you would do that would indicate "two photons in the same place at the same time". Otherwise this will turn into a discussion of what the photons are doing when we aren't looking at them, which will lead to much heat and very little light.
 
How can photons interact with each other? they don't carry a charge. Except for if you mean radiative corrections, something like the attachment.
However I wasn't able to find how to put the arrows :) [could there be an easier diagram?]
 

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Yeah, that's the simplest diagram for photon-photon scattering.
 
ChrisVer said:
However I wasn't able to find how to put the arrows :)

You put the arrows in one direction around the loop. The fermions are internal lines and you cannot really talk about them being particles/antiparticles. There are also additional diagrams where the order of the connected external lines are permuted with respect to your diagram.
 
The laser is based on the principle of coherence, i.e. photons joining together in the laser beam.
 

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