Can uncertainties become smaller in certain cases?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the propagation of uncertainties in a physics lab report, specifically whether it is possible for propagated uncertainties to be smaller than the original uncertainties of independent variables. The scope includes theoretical considerations of uncertainty propagation and practical implications for lab work.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, KodeK, questions whether it is possible for propagated uncertainties to be smaller than the original uncertainties and seeks clarification on their calculations.
  • Another participant asserts that if the random variables are independent, the uncertainties can indeed smooth out, suggesting that smaller propagated uncertainties are possible.
  • A further contribution explains that if the derivatives of the function being evaluated are small, the errors can also become less, providing a mathematical expression for uncertainty propagation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that it is possible for propagated uncertainties to be smaller under certain conditions, particularly when dealing with independent variables. However, the discussion remains open regarding the specific equations and methods used by KodeK.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the independence of variables and the specific mathematical steps involved in KodeK's calculations, which have not been fully detailed.

kodek64
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(First post. Go easy on me, mods :D)
EDIT: Seems I got the wrong forum. If a mod could be so kind to move it, I'd appreciate it :P

Hi everyone!

I'm working on a formal lab report for my physics class, and after propagating my uncertainties into a formula, I got an even smaller uncertainty relative to the original uncertainties (one of the indep. variables was 9% while my propagated uncertainty was 6%)

Is this possible in ANY case?

If it's not, I will post more information about the equations I'm using. I already spent 2 hours looking at all the numbers and using mathematica to calculate the results for me, and I just don't know what could be wrong with it (if there's even anything wrong with it).

Thanks for your help,

KodeK
 
Last edited:
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Is this possible in ANY case?
Yes. In general if the random variables are independent, the uncertainties tend to smooth out.
 
mathman said:
Yes. In general if the random variables are independent, the uncertainties tend to smooth out.

Hmm, I'd like to show you the equations I'm using just to get an okay so I know I'm doing this right. How would I copy mathematica's LaTeX output and paste it on the site? I don't want to have to copy an in-line equation :P
 
Yes, the errors can become less if the derivatives are small. If you evaluate a function f of independent variables x1, x2, ..., with respective errors dx1, dx2, ..., then the error in f is:

df = sqrt[df1^2 + df2^2 + ...]

where

df1 = f(x1 + dx1/2, x2,...) - f(x1 - dx1/2, x2,...)


df2 = f(x1, x2+dx2/2,...) - f(x1, x2 - dx2/2,...)

etc.
 

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