Can we ever truly understand the concept of infinite speed?

[DevilsAvocado]

... Furthermore if the past started with just one particle, and it moved into the future to be shot out by an Anti Future, ...

I think you’ve missed some very crucial facts. According to Einstein’s Special Relativity there is no universal Now, thus – there is no universal past and future in the Universe.

All we have is our local frame of reference.

• If you and I would stand one meter from each other, and try to wave simultaneously (you’ll start), it will work very well, since it takes light 3.3 nanoseconds (one billionth of a second) to travel one meter.
  
  
• If I would travel to the International Space Station, it could also work pretty well, if we had a very good telescope each, since it takes light ~ 0.0011 seconds to travel 346 km.
  
  
• If I would travel to the Moon and repeat the experiment, with even better telescopes, it becomes a little more troublesome, since it takes light 1.3 seconds to travel 384,400 km. You’ll think I’ve lost some of my reaction.
  
  
• If I could travel to the Sun, with extremely better telescopes each, the experiment will become stupid. You would think I was drunk or asleep, since it takes light 8.3 minutes to travel 150,000,000 km. I on the other hand would think this is super-cool, since I can see we are waving simultaneously...

So, who can decide what is 'now' in the Sun-scenario, you or me?

And it becomes even 'worse' – with observers moving at different velocities, report different distances, passage of time, and in some cases even different orderings of events!

If I was in the midway inside a speeding traincar, and you where standing on a platform as the train moves past, and I flash a light at the center of the traincar just as we pass each other. This is what will happen:

From my frame of reference onboard the train, the light will reach the front and back of the traincar at the same time.

You standing on the platform, sees the rear of the traincar moving toward the point at which the flash was given off and the front of the traincar moving away from it. As the speed of light is finite and the same in all directions for all observers, the light headed for the back of the train will have less distance to cover than the light headed for the front. Thus, from your frame of reference on the platform, the light will strike the back of the traincar before it reaches the front!​

Now, who can decide what is 'now', and in what order things happens in the train-scenario, you or me!?

The physical world is 'complex' as it is – we don’t need to make it 'worse' by wondering about a philosophical 'Anti Future' etc...

 

[LoreSpade]

I think you’ve missed some very crucial facts. According to Einstein’s Special Relativity there is no universal Now, thus – there is no universal past and future in the Universe.

All we have is our local frame of reference.

• If you and I would stand one meter from each other, and try to wave simultaneously (you’ll start), it will work very well, since it takes light 3.3 nanoseconds (one billionth of a second) to travel one meter.
  
  
• If I would travel to the International Space Station, it could also work pretty well, if we had a very good telescope each, since it takes light ~ 0.0011 seconds to travel 346 km.
  
  
• If I would travel to the Moon and repeat the experiment, with even better telescopes, it becomes a little more troublesome, since it takes light 1.3 seconds to travel 384,400 km. You’ll think I’ve lost some of my reaction.
  
  
• If I could travel to the Sun, with extremely better telescopes each, the experiment will become stupid. You would think I was drunk or asleep, since it takes light 8.3 minutes to travel 150,000,000 km. I on the other hand would think this is super-cool, since I can see we are waving simultaneously...

So, who can decide what is 'now' in the Sun-scenario, you or me?

And it becomes even 'worse' – with observers moving at different velocities, report different distances, passage of time, and in some cases even different orderings of events!

If I was in the midway inside a speeding traincar, and you where standing on a platform as the train moves past, and I flash a light at the center of the traincar just as we pass each other. This is what will happen:

From my frame of reference onboard the train, the light will reach the front and back of the traincar at the same time.

You standing on the platform, sees the rear of the traincar moving toward the point at which the flash was given off and the front of the traincar moving away from it. As the speed of light is finite and the same in all directions for all observers, the light headed for the back of the train will have less distance to cover than the light headed for the front. Thus, from your frame of reference on the platform, the light will strike the back of the traincar before it reaches the front!​

Now, who can decide what is 'now', and in what order things happens in the train-scenario, you or me!?

The physical world is 'complex' as it is – we don’t need to make it 'worse' by wondering about a philosophical 'Anti Future' etc...

I did think of that and yes that still applys. What you and he has described is an observation of the passage of time.

Take each one of those examples and let's change it slightly.

Instead of observing each other we are going to transfer energy.

our tool is a uncuttable string.

I pull how long will it take you to feel the pull. the experiment should be done with the sting unaffected by gravitational force. So it would need to be conducted in space.

If it takes just as long to feel the tug then i am wrong.



Anti time basicaly keeps things to where they can be obserable. without it you would see me waving in synch with you no matter where you are at. what i am saying is not anti-Einstine, it supports his work. but change's things

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... Instead of observing each other we are going to transfer energy. our tool is a uncuttable string ...

I admit: Many years ago I was thinking along the same path – what if one could build a 'railway' to the Sun, in the very stiff chemical compound Tungsten carbide, and take a BIG hammer a hit one end? Surely this will overtake the speed of light!? And I could send FTL-Morse messages to the Sun!

The answer is no no no no no NO!

Even more fundamental then our local frame of reference is the speed of light.

In vacuum NOTHING exceeds The Speed of Light 299,792,458 meters per second, not even the light itself, period.

There will be a wave of motion (actually one molecule 'bouncing' the next) in the Sun-'railway', and this motion can never overtake the speed of light.

 

[LoreSpade]

I admit: Many years ago I was thinking along the same path – what if one could build a 'railway' to the Sun, in the very stiff chemical compound Tungsten carbide, and take a BIG hammer a hit one end? Surely this will overtake the speed of light!? And I could send FTL-Morse messages to the Sun!

The answer is no no no no no NO!

Even more fundamental then our local frame of reference is the speed of light.

In vacuum NOTHING exceeds The Speed of Light 299,792,458 meters per second, not even the light itself, period.

There will be a wave of motion (actually one molecule 'bouncing' the next) in the Sun-'railway', and this motion can never overtake the speed of light.

I am not talking morse code. i am saying yanking the hell out of a string. Hitting something with a hammer and pulling might be two differnt things. hitting with a hammer is like making sound waves. that won't fly now will it.

But pulling on a string. that is physicaly connected to to both point A and B. has no real distance to cover, becouse it is connected. to move the string 1 foot backwards at point A, how long will it take point B to move 1 foot forwards? We are only covering a max of 2 feet. one foot movement each side. We are not moving this object the speed of light. we are moving it 1 foot over.

The Combined Gravity of the string should allow this to move as one object. if it does, gravity is faster than light.

Will it take the same amount of time for the other side to move forward 1 foot if pulled?
A: Will the string be impossible to move?
B: Will the string be possible to move but can only move in the smallest of increments = to the amount of time it takes for light to travel.


and by the way Dont just say something is impossible. prove to me this won't work. show me how. show me it has been done before. Quoting a man that said he might be wrong is not going to cut it for me. We have stars in galaxys in orbit around supermassive balckholes. Stars on the outer rim of these galaxys, yet they still orbit in somewhat synched orbit that they could in fact be moving close to the speed of light, yet they are objects so huge that it would take several mins for light to go through them, yet they still move really fast.

Why can this string move 1 foot by being pulled?

on another note waving at each other the process that let's us see each other do it is light. We are basing everything we do on how fast light travels. and the message reflected by the light is delayed becouse that light is en route traveling the distance. if we could stop time midstep and see that reflection we will see that it is in the middle of the both of us. in the present. not the past not the future, but the present. but becouse time does not stop. all we see is the past. the message is transmitted and moves this movment is the future.

This is on topic to Finite/Infinite universe, becouse time helped create the universe. in some way.

 

[Dmitry67]

No, pulling is the same.
It propagates at speed of sound.

*ANY* force applied to big object at one side propagates at speed of sound, no matter what the direction is.

 

[S.Vasojevic]

There is no absolutely rigid body. If you pull string (whatever the material it is made of), molecules in it will start to move to new equilibrium point (unless you exceed tensile strength of material). This movement propagates at the speed of sound for a given material. Far less then speed of light.
You should understand that macroscopic objects are made of atoms, and they 'respond' to applied force with stretching, contracting, or breaking apart. Stretching or contracting travels through material at the speed of sound.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... and by the way Dont just say something is impossible. prove to me this won't work. show me how. show me it has been done before. Quoting a man that said he might be wrong is not going to cut it for me ...

Einstein’s Special Relativity & General Relativity is the core foundation in cosmology, and the theory has been proven physically many times. Einstein is not just any man saying this or that...

And the basic foundation in all of this is the speed of light.

If you could get just the smallest indication for something exceeding the speed of light, you will get The Nobel Prize in Physics, this year. I promise you.

Not only that, you would become a multibillionaire in a very short time, since you could trick any bookmaker in the world by sending information faster than the speed of light = pure magic.

If you’re planning to break this physical law with an "uncuttable string", you have a lot of work to do...

 

[LoreSpade]

There is no absolutely rigid body. If you pull string (whatever the material it is made of), molecules in it will start to move to new equilibrium point (unless you exceed tensile strength of material). This movement propagates at the speed of sound for a given material. Far less then speed of light.
You should understand that macroscopic objects are made of atoms, and they 'respond' to applied force with stretching, contracting, or breaking apart. Stretching or contracting travels through material at the speed of sound.

Thank you this is what should have been said in responce.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

There will be a wave of motion (actually one molecule 'bouncing' the next) in the Sun-'railway', and this motion can never overtake the speed of light.

 

[LoreSpade]

upon further thought.

Say a string was placed in space. i think it would be impossible to tug it, becouse it would curve and take up orbit around the closest gravitational wave. and would move as a curve, slowing it and making it to where it cannot be straghtened.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

[LoreSpade]

Long story short.

if you are not thinking of ways to break the rules your not doing anything.

Sure the speed of light might not be broken. but i bet you 10 bucks,

You can manipulate time and cover more distance than the speed of light will take you normaly.

Time speeds up when a object travels the speed of light. That kinda means to me that it could travel just as slow and reach the same distance with the amount of time added to it.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... Time speeds up when a object travels the speed of light. ...

Well, actually no. It’s the other way around – moving clocks run slower.

And there’s physical proof in the GPS satellites, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Special_and_general_relativity" relative to Earth (according to Special Relativity), so that the atomic clocks are in sync.

It would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate an object with mass to the speed of light, according to the Lorentz factor.

There’s a lot more interesting info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light" .

And there are people trying to break this 'enigma'. One example is the famous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox" (Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen paradox), where quantum entanglement shows that measurements performed on spatially separated parts of a quantum system can apparently have an instantaneous influence on one another. And the experiment has been tested in fibre optic cables over distances of several kilometers – and it works...

One problem: No real information can be transferred – the outcome is 100% (quantum) random.