Can we explore white dwarfs with robotic missions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of robotic missions to white dwarfs, exploring the conditions and challenges associated with such missions, as well as comparisons to other types of stars like red dwarfs and brown dwarfs. Participants consider the physical characteristics of white dwarfs and the implications for spacecraft design and landing possibilities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that developing the right kind of spacecraft could enable robotic missions to white dwarfs, while others express skepticism about the practicality of landing on such objects.
  • It is noted that white dwarfs have extreme surface gravity and high temperatures, with one participant mentioning a gravity of 100,000g.
  • Some participants argue that stars do not have solid surfaces, making landing impossible, while others hypothesize that white dwarfs may have solid surfaces composed of crystallized carbon and oxygen.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for visiting red dwarfs and brown dwarfs, with some participants suggesting that these stars might be more feasible for exploration due to their lower temperatures.
  • One participant references a science fiction novel involving a neutron star, drawing parallels to the challenges of exploring such extreme environments.
  • Concerns are raised about the materials needed to withstand the conditions on white dwarfs and the practicality of landing on them, with suggestions that probes might need to be constructed from the same materials as the stars themselves.
  • Another participant questions the density profile of white dwarfs, expressing uncertainty about the transition from gaseous envelopes to solid surfaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility of robotic missions to white dwarfs and the nature of their surfaces. There is no consensus on whether landing on a white dwarf or any type of star is possible, with multiple competing perspectives on the physical characteristics and challenges involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions about the physical properties of white dwarfs and other stars, including their surface characteristics and the materials that could withstand extreme conditions. There is also a lack of definitive information regarding the density profiles of these compact objects.

bostonnew
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Hi all,

If we develop the right kind of space ships, would it be possible to do non-human robotic missions to a white dwarf? What would it be like?
 
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It would be very hot (that's why it is white) and the surface gravity would be very large (mass comparable to that of the sun in a planet sized volume).
 
Ok, thanks.

What about red dwarfs or brown dwarfs? I'm just curious if we can ever visit a star. Do we know of any material that could withstand the kind of heat required?
 
bostonnew said:
Ok, thanks.

What about red dwarfs or brown dwarfs? I'm just curious if we can ever visit a star. Do we know of any material that could withstand the kind of heat required?

We can certainly visit them. What would be accomplished by landing on them?
 
DaveC426913 said:
We can certainly visit them. What would be accomplished by landing on them?

A melted spacecraft at the taxpayers expense?

I don't think conventional science can theoretically land on a star in answer to the original OP. You would need a magic technology like a star trek type "force field".
 
Uhh, I think we are overlooking the fact that there is nothing to land on! Stars do not have a solid surface, so it's more like trying to land on Jupiter. And to get to anything resembling a solid surface, you have to go very deep down, then you have both pressure and ridiculous temperatures to contend with. Not possible, no.
 
Nabeshin said:
Uhh, I think we are overlooking the fact that there is nothing to land on! Stars do not have a solid surface,

White dwarfs are not normal stars. It is hypothesized that they do indeed have solid surfaces of crystalized carbon and oxygen under a thin atmo of hydrogen and helium.
 
This reminds me of the novel Dragon's Egg by Robert Forward. In it a neutron star passes close by the solar system and humanity seizes on this opportunity to do some study and send a manned ship. Upon arrival they find that the surface is covered in life made from nuclear matter, the effect of this is that they are very small and 'chemical' reactions occur 1,000,000 times faster. Within a day some tribal life has evolved to a space faring race.

In all seriousness though the gravity will be so huge that any material capable of withstanding it is unlikely to be able to do any complex activity, in combination with the heat it's extremely unlikely that we could land some sort of vehicle. You would probably have to build the probe out of the material the star is made out of.
 
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  • #10
bostonnew said:
Ok, thanks.

What about red dwarfs or brown dwarfs? I'm just curious if we can ever visit a star. Do we know of any material that could withstand the kind of heat required?

Red dwarfs would be just cool enough for some engineering materials to endure, while brown dwarfs would be a piece of cake. The gravity is very high on both, but not impossibly so. However neither have surfaces to land on.
 
  • #11
One possibility is the equatorial low-gee belt of a neutron star. Some are rotating fast enough to cancel most of their gravity and create conditions suitable for normal matter to exist in. Stephen Baxter has written a couple of SF stories using that concept in his Xeelee sequence.
 
  • #12
DaveC426913 said:
White dwarfs are not normal stars. It is hypothesized that they do indeed have solid surfaces of crystalized carbon and oxygen under a thin atmo of hydrogen and helium.

Interesting, I suppose it sort of makes sense. I'm wondering, do you know of a place to find the density profile for these compact objects? I was under the (completely unfounded) impression that they had a (relatively) large gaseous envelope and slowly transitioned to higher densities rather than a well defined surface like the Earth.
 
  • #13
Nabeshin said:
Interesting, I suppose it sort of makes sense. I'm wondering, do you know of a place to find the density profile for these compact objects? I was under the (completely unfounded) impression that they had a (relatively) large gaseous envelope and slowly transitioned to higher densities rather than a well defined surface like the Earth.

There's dozens of papers on them from the last decade alone. White dwarfs are very popular astrophysical objects as the physics is pretty straight forward. Just Google or hit the ADS or the ArXiv.
 

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