Planetary debris found in white dwarf atmospheres

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lomidrevo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Planetary White dwarf
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of planetary debris found in the atmospheres of white dwarfs, particularly regarding the formation of planetary systems around different types of stars, including B-type stars. Participants explore the potential for exoplanet formation in various stellar environments and the definitions surrounding what constitutes a planet.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that the detection of lithium and potassium in white dwarf atmospheres suggests that rocky, differentiated planets may form around B-type stars, challenging previous assumptions about planetary formation.
  • Others note that most exoplanets are found around stars similar to the Sun (F, G, K types), and express skepticism about the viability of planetary formation around O-type stars due to their short lifespans and the photo-evaporation effects they produce.
  • Concerns are raised about whether planets around B-type stars have sufficient time to clear their orbits, given their relatively short lifetimes of around 170 million years.
  • Some participants argue that the definition of a planet may need reevaluation, suggesting that it should include the potential to clear its orbit, and propose alternative criteria for defining planets based on mass comparisons within their neighborhoods.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of radiation pressure and the Poynting-Robertson effect on the formation and stability of planetary systems around massive stars.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the viability of planetary formation around different types of stars, particularly B and O types. There is no consensus on the definition of a planet, with some advocating for changes to the current criteria while others defend it.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on stellar lifetimes and the definitions of planets, which remain contentious and unresolved in the discussion.

lomidrevo
Messages
433
Reaction score
250
I read this interesting article today, the original paper here. Abstract:
White dwarfs that accrete the debris of tidally disrupted asteroids provide the opportunity to measure the bulk composition of the building blocks, or fragments, of exoplanets. This technique has established a diversity in compositions comparable to what is observed in the solar system, suggesting that the formation of rocky planets is a generic process. Whereas the relative abundances of lithophile and siderophile elements within the planetary debris can be used to investigate whether exoplanets undergo differentiation, the composition studies carried out so far lack unambiguous tracers of planetary crusts. Here we report the detection of lithium in the atmospheres of four cool (<5,000 K) and old (cooling ages 5-10 Gyr) metal-polluted white dwarfs, where one also displays photospheric potassium. The relative abundances of these two elements with respect to sodium and calcium strongly suggest that all four white dwarfs have accreted fragments of planetary crusts. We detect an infrared excess in one of the systems, indicating that accretion from a circumstellar debris disk is on-going. The main-sequence progenitor mass of this star was 4.8±0.2M⊙, demonstrating that rocky, differentiated planets may form around short-lived B-type stars.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
As far as I know, most exoplanets we discover today are around "small" hosting stars, similar to our Sun. Categories F, G and K are most common:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet-hosting_stars#Type_of_star,_spectral_classification

On the other hand, planetary formation around O-type stars is not possible:
Observations using the Spitzer Space Telescope indicate that extremely massive stars of spectral category O, which are much hotter than the Sun, produce a photo-evaporation effect that inhibits planetary formation.

So I find this paper as a fascinating evidence that formation of planetary systems should have been possible around B stars.
 
I would not expect planets around O's. They don't live long, and in that time you need to form exoplanets, and (since the Pluto Purge) give them time to clear the neighborhood.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: lomidrevo
Good point. I wonder whether the objects orbiting a B star would have enough time to clear neighborhoods, so IAU could call them (exo)planets. For a star with 5 solar mass, the lifetime is only about 170 million yrs. Could be that enough time?
 
lomidrevo said:
Good point. I wonder whether the objects orbiting a B star would have enough time to clear neighborhoods, so IAU could call them (exo)planets. For a star with 5 solar mass, the lifetime is only about 170 million yrs. Could be that enough time?
Vanadium 50 said:
I would not expect planets around O's. They don't live long, and in that time you need to form exoplanets, and (since the Pluto Purge) give them time to clear the neighborhood.
Shoemaker Levy-9 hit Jupiter. There are millions of Jupiter Trojans. 99942 Apophis is still flying by Earth again. Either there are no planets or the definition needs to mean the object has the potential to clear its orbit.

The radiation pressure will be 1000 times higher if luminosity is 1000 times higher. So larger dust particles would blow out on hyperbolic orbits. The time scale for Poynting-Robertson effect would drop too. That should have some effect on planet formation. The neighborhood would clear out fairly quickly.
 
stefan r said:
Either there are no planets or the definition needs to mean the object has the potential to clear its orbit.

I think the definition is terrible. Exoplanets are technically not planets. An object at a particular place and time is a planet but the same object at another time or place is not. I understand why they did it (although I would argue that the problem is not, as Wkkipedia claims, with Eris but rather with Sedna) but I think the solution is no better.

There are better ways to clarify this than adding "potentially" in front of "clearing the neighborhood", such as comparing the mass of the planet to the sum of all other bodies in its "neighborhood". By that standard, Earth (the most planetty planet) is 1.700,000 and Ceres is 0.33. There are no objects between Mars at 5000 and Pluto at 1/3.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
6K
  • · Replies 60 ·
3
Replies
60
Views
8K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K