Can we remove/add electrons and protons from/to atoms to create other materials?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility of adding or removing electrons and protons from atoms to create different materials, specifically exploring the processes of fusion and chemical reactions. Participants examine the implications of current technology and energy requirements for such transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that transforming a hydrogen atom into a carbon atom is theoretically possible through fusion, which requires significant energy input.
  • Others argue that while fusion is a method to create new elements, it is not practical with current technology for energy production, as reactors do not yet yield more energy than they consume.
  • A participant mentions that atomic bombs utilize neutron bombardment to create different elements, but this process does not result in stable elements.
  • There is a distinction made between chemical reactions, such as the reaction of vinegar and baking soda, and nuclear reactions, with some participants asserting that the former does not create new elements.
  • One participant highlights that electrolysis can separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, but this is also considered a chemical process rather than a transformation of elements.
  • Another participant notes that the initial energy requirement for fusion is high, but once initiated, fusion can produce energy.
  • A later reply questions the clarity of previous statements, indicating a need for further clarification on the energy dynamics of fusion.
  • One participant references a specific chemical synthesis process involving beta decay, suggesting a complex relationship between nuclear and chemical transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the practicality and implications of nuclear fusion versus chemical reactions. There is no consensus on the feasibility of transforming elements through the addition or removal of protons and electrons.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the high energy requirements for nuclear fusion and the distinction between nuclear and chemical processes, but there are unresolved questions about the practical applications and definitions involved in these transformations.

johnnya
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Example:

Take a hydrogen atom and make it a carbon atom.


Can we do it with our current technology? If so, how do they do it?
 
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I do believe that's how atomic bombs work, in an overly simplified way. Neutrons are shot into whichever radioactive element used in the bomb. It doesn't become a stable element (hence why it goes boom), but does create two different elements and extra neutrons which continue the reaction more quickly.

I think there are some ways you can calculate how to mix different elements to create other elements together. Like mixing vinegar and baking soda creates carbon dioxide and something else... However, as far as actually turning one element into another by injecting or removing electrons and protons, I would assume it would require too much energy to be practical.

But then again, it can be as simple as turning water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis, so it does happen!
 
johnnya said:
Example:

Take a hydrogen atom and make it a carbon atom.
Yes, it's called fusion, and it is the basis for fusion reactors and fuson bombs. It takes a LOT of energy.

Reactors: not yet practical - the energy out does not yet exceed the energy in.
Bombs: the fusion reaction takes so much energy that fusion bombs are triggered using atom bombs.

icez said:
I do believe that's how atomic bombs work, in an overly simplified way. Neutrons are shot into whichever radioactive element used in the bomb. It doesn't become a stable element (hence why it goes boom), but does create two different elements and extra neutrons which continue the reaction more quickly.
Fusion bombs do this. Atomic bombs do the opposite. They break large atoms into smaller atoms.

icez said:
I think there are some ways you can calculate how to mix different elements to create other elements together. Like mixing vinegar and baking soda creates carbon dioxide and something else...

No, this is merely chemistry. You are not making elements.

icez said:
But then again, it can be as simple as turning water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis, so it does happen!
No, again, this is merely chemistry. The hydrogen and oxygen remain hydrogen and oxygen whether they are separate as gases or together as part of a water molecule.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Yes, it's called fusion, and it is the basis for fusion reactors and fuson bombs. It takes a LOT of energy.

I think what you rote can be a little bit confusing.

It takes a lot of energy to START fusion, but once started, fusion creates a lot of energy on itself. Given correct selection of material net effect is energy production. Look through the window :smile:
 
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Borek said:
I think what you rote can be a little bit confusing.

It takes a lot of energy to START fusion, but once started, fusion creates a lot of energy on itself.

Did you read the next line?

Reactors: not yet practical - the energy out does not yet exceed the energy in.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Did you read the next line?

Yes - and I still thought some clarification won't hurt.

Call me a nitpicker if you want :-p
 
Borek said:
Yes - and I still thought some clarification won't hurt.

True. It was vague.
 
To mention one of the few chemically relevant processes: The first synthesis of Perbromate started from the 83-selenate. Beta decay of the selenium yielded for the first time macroscopic quantities of 82-perbromate.
 
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