Can You Change a 10-Pin Transformer to an 8-Pin One Without Affecting Quality?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and implications of replacing a 10-pin transformer with an 8-pin transformer in a PCB design context. Participants explore potential effects on quality, magnetic characteristics, and the suitability of different transformer cores for specific applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether changing from a 10-pin to an 8-pin transformer would affect quality and what consequences might arise, particularly regarding pin count and schematic design.
  • Another participant notes that the newer 8-pin transformer is a surface mount style, which may be more suitable for automatic assembly, but it has a smaller core that could lead to magnetic saturation issues under high current.
  • Some participants emphasize that the number of pins does not inherently affect electrical performance, but rather the magnetic characteristics of the transformer are crucial.
  • Concerns are raised about the need to match ferrite core characteristics when switching transformer sizes, with specific AL values mentioned as important for maintaining inductance.
  • There is discussion about the volt-second product and its role in core saturation, with a participant explaining how inductance and wire size relate to transformer design.
  • One participant expresses a desire for assistance from a freelancer engineer to navigate the complexities of transformer selection and design.
  • Another participant encourages the original poster to enhance their understanding of transformer basics, suggesting that foundational knowledge is important for electrical engineers.
  • There are mentions of contacting the manufacturer for support and clarification on core compatibility and characteristics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the implications of changing transformer types, with some agreeing on the importance of matching core characteristics while others highlight different aspects of transformer design. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take for the transformer replacement.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific datasheets and core characteristics, indicating a reliance on these documents for making informed decisions. There is uncertainty about the exact impact of changing transformer types on performance, particularly concerning magnetic saturation and inductance.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for electrical engineers, PCB designers, and students interested in transformer design and selection, particularly in contexts involving different mounting technologies and core characteristics.

  • #31
Are those UL Recognized Components or UL Listed Products? I'm guessing they are Recognized Components, since they do not have the AC Mains connections yet (with switch & fuse & grounding, etc.)?

UL Recognized Components:
http://www.ul.com/global/documents/offerings/perspectives/regulators/technical/ul_RecognizedComponentMarks.pdf

UL Listed Products:
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/newtoul/ulmarkproductcertification/

What do the UL labels look like on those power supplies? I've used them in products before, but don't remember what the labels looked like...
 
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  • #32
berkeman said:
Are those UL Recognized Components or UL Listed Products? I'm guessing they are Recognized Components, since they do not have the AC Mains connections yet (with switch & fuse & grounding, etc.)?

UL Recognized Components:
http://www.ul.com/global/documents/offerings/perspectives/regulators/technical/ul_RecognizedComponentMarks.pdf

UL Listed Products:
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/newtoul/ulmarkproductcertification/

What do the UL labels look like on those power supplies? I've used them in products before, but don't remember what the labels looked like...

I just found an image that looked [STRIKE]like[/STRIKE] similar to the open frame supplies I used years ago. At that time, they had this label:

200px-UL_Mark.svg.png
 
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  • #33
Evidently "UL is introducing an enhanced version ..."

ul_markshub_certified_logo.png


http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/aboutul/ulmarks/
 
  • #34
I'm guessing that the supplies you used before were the versions that included the power-entry module (IEC connector, fuse, switch). They come in both versions -- with and without power entry module -- for some of the models. When there is no power entry module (just connector lugs for the AC Mains input from a separate power entry module), they almost certainly will be UL Recognized Components, I believe, like the UR(backwards) logo on this open frame power supply:

http://store.flw.com/products/international-power-single-output-linear-power-supply-if24-12.html
 
  • #35
berkeman said:
I'm guessing that the supplies you used before were the versions that included the power-entry module (IEC connector, fuse, switch).
Yes. If I remember correctly, the power-in leads were to be soldered to Line (fuse), Neutral, and Ground terminals.
 
  • #37
No, I am not going to design anything. I am just looking for some parts, so I can hand them for electrical expert to check the options

it's time to show him those datasheets and let him decide whether he wants to undertake redesigning around a different core.

old jim
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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