Can You Find a Counterexample for This Module Over a Commutative Ring?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the conditions under which two submodules of an $A$-module can be considered equal given certain intersection and sum properties. Participants explore the validity of a statement regarding submodules in the context of a commutative ring, seeking a counterexample to illustrate the necessity of an additional condition.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Siron, questions whether the equality of intersections and sums of submodules implies their equality, suggesting that the condition $V \subset V'$ is necessary.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the definition of $U + V$ and confirms it as the set of all sums of elements from $U$ and $V$.
  • Evgeny proposes that a counterexample can be constructed using $\mathbb{R}^3$ as a module over $\mathbb{R}$.
  • A detailed counterexample is provided, where $U$, $V$, and $V'$ are defined as specific spans in $\mathbb{R}^3$, demonstrating that $U + V = U + V'$ and $U \cap V = U \cap V'$ while $V \neq V'$.
  • Another participant reiterates the counterexample with the same details, affirming the findings and acknowledging contributions from others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the counterexample provided, but the initial question regarding the necessity of the condition remains a point of exploration without a definitive consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the broader implications of the findings or the necessity of the condition mentioned, leaving open questions about the generalizability of the counterexample.

Siron
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Hi,

Let $A$ be a commutative ring, $M$ an $A-$module and $U,V,V'$ submodules of $M$ such that $U \cap V = U \cap V'$ and $U+V=U+V'$. Does it follow that $V=V'$?

The answer is no because the condition that $V \subset V'$ is necessary though I can't find a counterexample.

Does someone has a good counterexample for this wrong statement?

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Siron
 
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By $U+V$, do you mean $\{u+v\mid u\in U,v\in V\}$?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
By $U+V$, do you mean $\{u+v\mid u\in U,v\in V\}$?
Yes.
 
Then it's easy to get a counterexample by considering $\mathbb{R}^3$ as a module over $\mathbb{R}$.
 
Easy counter-example:

Let our parent $\Bbb R$-module be $\Bbb R^3$ as Evgeny suggests.

Take $U = \text{span}((0,1,0))$

$V = \text{span}((1,0,0))$

$V' = \text{span}((1,1,0))$.

It is clear that:

$U + V = U + V' = \Bbb R^2 \times \{0\}$ and:

$U \cap V = U \cap V' = \{(0,0,0)\}$

but $V \neq V'$.
 
Deveno said:
Easy counter-example:

Let our parent $\Bbb R$-module be $\Bbb R^3$ as Evgeny suggests.

Take $U = \text{span}((0,1,0))$

$V = \text{span}((1,0,0))$

$V' = \text{span}((1,1,0))$.

It is clear that:

$U + V = U + V' = \Bbb R^2 \times \{0\}$ and:

$U \cap V = U \cap V' = \{(0,0,0)\}$

but $V \neq V'$.

Thanks Deveno and Evgeny!
 

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