Carbocation Stability on Fused Rings

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the stability of carbocations on fused rings, specifically comparing bicyclo[2.2.1]heptane with a positive charge on a bridgehead carbon and 2-methylbicyclo[2.2.1]heptane with a positive charge on C2. Participants explore the reasons behind the perceived stability differences between these two structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the stability of the carbocation on the bridgehead carbon of bicyclo[2.2.1]heptane, suggesting that it may be less stable due to geometric stress.
  • Another participant proposes that the carbocation in the first specimen is unstable due to tensile stress, while the second specimen is more stable as it resembles a standard sp2-hybridized carbon.
  • A third participant clarifies that the carbocation on the bridgehead carbon is sp3-hybridized, which may prevent it from rehybridizing to a more stable sp2 configuration due to surrounding carbons.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the reasoning behind the stability differences, particularly regarding the role of hybridization and the nature of tertiary versus secondary carbons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the stability of the carbocations, with differing views on the impact of geometric stress and hybridization on stability. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitive reasons for the stability differences.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include a lack of clarity on the specific effects of hybridization and geometric constraints on carbocation stability, as well as the dependence on the definitions of stability in this context.

pzona
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So I just had a question on a quiz (did not go well) about carbocation stability on the fused rings bicyclo[2.2.1]heptane, with the positive charge on a bridgehead carbon and 2-methylbicyclo[2.2.1]heptane with the positive charge on C2. The question was which is more stable and why?

The question stated that the second option is far more stable, but I have little to no idea why. Both are tertiary carbons, so that doesn't factor in. I answered that the first option was more symmetrical, so will be less likely to deprotonate at the bridgehead, but in retrospect this doesn't make sense as deprotonation wouldn't leave a positive charge in the first place.

A friend of mine said that the bridgehead carbon is under a ton of stress geometrically, and to think of it as an intermediate in a hydrohalogenation across what used to be a double bond. So with respect to this, why would the charge not be placed on the bridgehead? I'm thinking of this in terms of tertiary vs. secondary carbons (maybe this is where I'm going wrong?), and a tertiary carbon is more likely to hold a charge.

Can anyone help? I won't get a chance to ask about this in detail until next Tuesday and I'm really bothered by this question so I don't want to wait. Let me know if I need to clarify on anything.
 
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I think it is because the tensile stress, a carbocation usually go to reorder in a more stable specimen, and c+ in specimen 1 is really unestable.
Specimen two is a quasi normal sp2, but specimen 1 its really stressed because of the bridge.
 
That's right. In the first case the carbocation is for, essentially, an sp3-hybridized bridgehead carbon and in the second case it is for your standard, run-of-the-mill sp2-hybridized carbon. Tying back those other carbons surrounding the bridgehead carbon prevents it from rehybridizing completely to sp2 in the first case.
 
Ah, back to hybridization; I should have known. Thanks for the help.
 

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