Change in chemical energy of rocket

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the change in chemical energy of a rocket and its relationship to energy expended, useful work done, and efficiency. Participants are exploring concepts related to energy transformations and efficiency calculations in a physics context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of energy expended and its relationship to efficiency, questioning how to define efficiency based on the energy used versus wasted. There are attempts to clarify the definitions of useful work done and total work done, as well as the implications of energy loss.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants raising questions about the relationships between different forms of energy and the calculations involved. Some guidance has been offered regarding the definitions and relationships of energy quantities, though there are ongoing clarifications needed regarding specific calculations.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the calculation of total energy and its components, with participants questioning the assumptions made in earlier posts. The discussion reflects a need for clarity on the definitions and relationships of energy types in the context of the problem.

isukatphysics69
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Homework Statement



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Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


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19800*.35 = 6930J
 

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really need help here
 
isukatphysics69 said:
19800*.35 = 6930J
What is the relationship between the energy expended, the useful work done, and the efficiency?
 
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haruspex said:
What is the relationship between the energy expended, the useful work done, and the efficiency?
energy expended divided by work is efficiency?
 
isukatphysics69 said:
energy expended divided by work is efficiency?
Would that tend to produce a value > 1 or < 1?
 
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haruspex said:
Would that tend to produce a value > 1 or < 1?
it depends tho
 
isukatphysics69 said:
it depends tho
Will the work expended be more or less than the useful work done?
Where might the work expended go?
 
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ok so since there is wasted energy then the work expended is more than the useful work done
 
isukatphysics69 said:
ok so since there is wasted energy then the work expended is more than the useful work done
So what would be a sensible way to define efficiency?
 
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  • #10
haruspex said:
So what would be a sensible way to define efficiency?
so 35/100 particles of rocketfuel are usefull
so that's 35% so 35% of the total energy is 35% of 19800
 
  • #11
Right, so what should you do with the 19800J you calculated?
 
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  • #12
haruspex said:
Right, so what should you do with the 19800J you calculated?
so total energy expended was 19800 jules. only 35 percent of that is used efficiently so out of the total 19800 6930 was put to use that's what i thought
 
  • #13
isukatphysics69 said:
so total energy expended was 19800 jules
No. How did you calculate the 19800 J? Go back and check.
 
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  • #14
haruspex said:
No. How did you calculate the 19800 J? Go back and check.
oh yea ok so the change in chemical potential energy was 19800 joules
 
  • #15
isukatphysics69 said:
oh yea ok so the change in chemical potential energy was 19800 joules
There are the following quantities of work...

Useful work done
Total work done
19800J
GPE gained
KE gained
Chemical PE lost
Work lost to heat, sound etc.

What are all the relationships between these?
 
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  • #16
haruspex said:
There are the following quantities of work...

Useful work done
Total work done
19800J
GPE gained
KE gained
Chemical PE lost
Work lost to heat, sound etc.

What are all the relationships between these?
They all have to do with energy
 
  • #17
isukatphysics69 said:
They all have to do with energy
No, I mean what equations relate them. Some are equal, some add up to equal others...
 
  • #18
haruspex said:
There are the following quantities of work...What are all the relationships between these?

Total work done = GPE gained + Work lost to heat, sound etc. + KE gained
Chemical PE lost = 19800J Since it is the change in PE
Useful work done = KE gained​
 
  • #19
isukatphysics69 said:
Total work done = GPE gained + Work lost to heat, sound etc. + KE gained
Yes.
isukatphysics69 said:
Chemical PE lost = 19800J Since it is the change in PE
No. Look at how you calculated 19800J in post #1. I see nothing about chemical PE there.
isukatphysics69 said:
Useful work done = KE gained
You left out GPE gained.
 
  • #20
haruspex said:
Yes.

No. Look at how you calculated 19800J in post #1. I see nothing about chemical PE there.

You left out GPE gained.
ok there is a mistake there both sides should be multiplied by negative 1 so CPE final - CPE initial will be ΔCPE
 
  • #21
isukatphysics69 said:
ok there is a mistake there both sides should be multiplied by negative 1 so CPE final - CPE initial will be ΔCPE
No.
Please try to address my points in post #19.
 

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