Change in r-hat by change in theta

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves deriving expressions for the derivatives of the unit vectors in polar coordinates, specifically ##\frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta}## and ##\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{d\theta}##, using Cartesian coordinates as a basis. The original poster expresses a desire to understand the relationship between these unit vectors and their derivatives in the context of a particle's motion described in polar coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to differentiate the expression for ##\hat{r}## in terms of Cartesian unit vectors and questions how to simplify the resulting expressions to isolate ##\hat{r}## and ##\hat{\theta}##.
  • Some participants question the assumptions made regarding the fixed values of X and Y in the context of the derivatives, leading to reflections on the implications of those assumptions.

Discussion Status

The discussion has seen participants exploring various methods to derive the required expressions, with some expressing uncertainty about their approaches. There is acknowledgment of mistakes made in earlier reasoning, and a participant reflects on their learning process regarding LaTeX and the problem-solving approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster's approach may have been complicated by assumptions about the fixed nature of certain variables, which could affect the differentiation process. There is also mention of the need for clarity in the expressions used for the unit vectors.

Storm6436

Homework Statement


The motion of a particle is described in standard planepolar coordinates. Derive
an expression for each of ##\frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta}## and ##\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{d\theta}##, each in terms of one or both of ##\hat{r}## and ##\hat{\theta}## as necessary. Derive both results through using each of two
methods:

i.First method: Start by expressing ##\hat{r}## and ##\hat{\theta}## in terms of Cartesian unit vectors. Then differentiate each expression, make a diagram and use geometry or trigonometry, etc. Clearly show all
necessary steps of the argument for each.

(Omitting second method because I'm pretty sure once I figure the first out, I'll be able to use the rotating frames argument on my own)

Homework Equations


$$y=r\sin(\theta)$$
$$\frac{dy}{d\theta}=r\cos(\theta)$$
$$x=r\cos(\theta)$$
$$\frac{dx}{d\theta}=-r\sin(\theta)$$
$$r\hat{r}=x\cos{\theta}\hat{x} + y\sin{\theta}\hat{y}$$

The Attempt at a Solution


So I chucked a ##\frac{d}{d\theta}## at the last equation listed, which spits out: $$ \frac{dr}{d\theta}\hat{r} +r \frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta} = \left(\frac{dx}{d\theta}\cos{\theta}- x\sin{\theta}\right)\hat{x} + \left( \frac{dy}{d\theta}\sin{\theta}+ y\sin{\theta}\right)\hat{y}$$

I then figured if we're rolling only in ##\theta##, then by the fact that ##\hat{\theta}## is orthogonal to ##\hat{r}##, that makes ## \frac{dr}{d\theta}\hat{r} = 0##

With that in mind, I subbed in the two equations for ##\frac{dx}{d\theta}## and ##\frac{dy}{d\theta}## which yielded:

$$r \frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta} = \left(-r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}-r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}\right)\hat{x} + \left( r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}+r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}\right)\hat{y}$$

Which simplifies to:

$$r \frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta} = -2r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}\hat{x} +2r\sin{\theta}\cos{\theta}\hat{y}$$

I guess where I'm stuck is trying to boil it down further into just ##\hat{r}## and ##\hat{\theta}##. It's been way too long since I've done vector calc, so I'm not sure if I can just divide out all the r's or where else I should go from this step, provided I even did it right in the first place. I mean, it'd be nice if I could snarf the cos off the x and the sin off the y and be all voila, ##\hat{r}## but I'm pretty certain that's not how this works.

Similarly, I'm expecting this to end up something like ##\frac{d\hat{r}}{d\theta}=d\theta## and this doesn't look to me like it's heading that way at all.
 
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$$\hat{r}=\cos{\theta}\hat{i}+\sin{\theta}\hat{j}$$
 
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You're kidding, right? *facepalm* Leave it to me to overcomplicate things and totally miss the obvious. Thanks, Chester. At least I managed to learn a decent amount of LaTeX last night while I was spinning my wheels.
 
For what it's worth, now that I've finished both parts of the above problem, it popped into my head where I went wrong above. For the use-case I was attempting, X and Y are fixed values, so ##\frac{dx}{d\theta}=0## and ##\frac{dy}{d\theta}=0## which plops out the answer I should have been getting if you correct the error I made above on the second term of ##\hat{y}##, which should have been ##\cos{\theta}## not ##\sin{\theta}##.
 
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