Changing wavelength while preserving geometry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of changing the wavelength of electromagnetic (EM) waves and electron waves while preserving their geometric properties and coherence. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of this topic, including the behavior of waves in different media and the implications of wave-particle duality for electrons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is possible to change the wavelength of an EM wave without losing the geometry of the wave, particularly in relation to interference patterns.
  • Another participant notes that in a dielectric, the wavelength of an EM wave changes while retaining coherence, but also mentions that the direction of the wave can change due to refraction.
  • There is a discussion about whether an electron wave can have its wavelength changed without collapsing its wave nature or losing coherence, with one participant suggesting that the speed of the electron wave could be altered using RF waves.
  • Some participants propose that the energy of an electron, measured in electron volts (eV), is related to its speed and wavelength, raising questions about the implications of this relationship for coherence.
  • One participant asks if it is possible to reflect an electron wave at an angle while preserving its coherence throughout the process.
  • Another participant provides details about the use of RF waves to accelerate electrons and discusses the behavior of electrons in a magnetron, emphasizing the need for understanding the underlying physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relationship between wavelength, speed, and coherence for both EM and electron waves. While some points are clarified, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the preservation of coherence during wavelength changes and reflections of electron waves.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of coherence and wave-particle duality, as well as the unresolved nature of the mathematical relationships between energy, speed, and wavelength for electrons.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying wave mechanics, quantum physics, and electromagnetic theory, particularly in the context of electron behavior and wave coherence.

jaketodd
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Are there ways to change the wavelength of an EM wave while still preserving all geometry of the wave (for instance, preserving an interference pattern which has, of course, irregular geometry in between the minima and maxima of the wave)? I've heard some crystals can change the wavelength but I'm thinking that perhaps some geometry would be lost due to parts of the wave running into the molecules and/or atoms that the crystal is made of. Would the wavelength change be a coherency-preserving process?

Is an electron wave the same as an EM wave (besides having a higher frequency)? And if no, is there a way to change an electron wave's wavelength while preserving geometry and coherency as described above?

Thank you!
 
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...And, I forgot to ask: Is there a way to measure the amplitude of an electron wave?
 
In a dielectric, the wavelength, but not the frequency, of an EM wave is changed. Off normal incidence will change the direction (refraction) and cause reflection. The EM wave still retains its coherence. Both the E and the H amplitudes are perpendicular to the direction of propagation. the Poynting vector, P = E x H gives both the direction and the power. The velocity of propagation is also changed : v = c/n.

An electron is not refracted in dielectrics. At high enough energies, it does not slow down in dielectrics (excepting by radiative processes), and can travel "faster than light" in the dielectric, and as a consequence will radiate Cerenkov light. Electrons can be accelerated by RF voltages, from thermionic emission energies, up to about 100,000,000 volts (100 GeV). Current is measured in amps (=6.24151 x 10^18 electrons/sec), and power by volts times amps.
 
So an electron's eV is dependent on it's speed? And I read somewhere that eV determines wavelength. So if you slowed down an electron wave, it would change the wavelength? Can this be done without collapsing the wave?/Can this be done while preserving coherency? An electron in an atom is thought to be in wave form, right? And it is changing direction (orbiting) because of the attraction to the proton(s). So I'm thinking that with an EM field or something you could change the speed of an electron wave without collapsing it and preserve its' coherency. I am thinking this partly because you said in your reply that an electron "can be accelerated by RF voltages" and I'm thinking by RF you mean radio frequency which is an EM wave. Is all this correct?

Also, is it possible to reflect an electron wave at an angle while preserving coherency throughout the process?

Thank you!
 
You are right on. Radio frequency waves in traveling wave cavities, usually 1400 to 10,000 MHz, are used to accelerate electrons (roughly 1 eV or electron volt) from thermionic emission (hot) cathodes, and the energy gain can be as much as 25 MeV (million electron volts) per meter. As the electron gains energy, it gains speed, and when it gets close to the speed of light, it starts gaining mass instead.

In the magnetron, the electron energy is a few thousand electron volts (the cathode is biased negative), and the electric field together with the magnetic field (called a crossed field) bend the electron's trajectory into orbits (based on the Lorentz force). The electrons are bunched as they pass the vanes, and in turn they excite resonances in the cavities. There are no free protons in the magnetron tube. It is just vacuum.

To understand the magnetron tube well, you need to study the differential equations of electrons in crossed fields. There are several books on microwave engineering that go into crossed field tubes and magnetron theory in some detail.
 
Thank you for your reply! To clarify and reiterate unanswered questions:
So the wavelength of an electron depends on speed? Are you affirming that? Does the interaction of the RF waves, to adjust the speed, collapse the electron to a particle or is coherency/wave-nature preserved? And, is it possible to reflect an electron wave so that coherency/wave-nature is preserved throughout the reflection process?

Thank you!
Jake
 

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