News China Unocal and the U.S Treasury Department

[The Smoking Man]

With all of that kind of cash on hand, China is in a position to buy a lot of American assets. It is kind of ironic but it might be best if China continues buying T bills.

If they buy American Companies the factories will be closed here and reopened in China.

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Haier Group, China's biggest home appliance maker, said Tuesday it is still interested in making an offer for larger U.S. rival Maytag, but has not yet decided on whether to make a formal bid.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/05/news/international/maytag_heier.reut/

It amazes me that so many people think that, all national security is about, is having a strong military and lots of oil.

What a strange perspective.

Let's see if I have this straight ... American companies move their production to China and the US administration says it's okay to outsource.

German and American companies form partnerships to produce cars. Germany outright purchases British car companies. Both of these are seen as benefits to the brand?

Sony corporation purchases Columbia TriStar and it took them 8.5 years to release 'Return From the River Kwai' (only after a lawsuit) because the topicality included the genuine failure of the Japanese to identify prison ships.

Now Haier wants to purchase the Maytag company to take advantage of brand image built up in America and you're saying that this is somehow a 'communist plot' hatched by the 'Communist' Chinese?

Maybe you should look at why it is that Haier is hesitating over the purchase ... Take a look at the debt. Maytag is not long for this world anyway. If it is purchased by Haier, they will make good the company debt meaning they will give money to the American corporations who are the creditors of Maytag dollar for dollar thus saving American OEMs.

If they 'fail to purchase' Maytag goes under and the creditors get pennies on the dollar; all aspects of this business will be closed including marketing, distribution and repair networks.

But this is all a 'commie plot' right?

Is your tinfoil hat on too tight?

 

[The Smoking Man]

Yep, precisely - you've summarised this really well, solutions! That's capitalism for you - someone's making big money out of all this, but it certainly isn't the ordinary American worker.

Question ... Who do you think is the largest user of power in China?

Industry.

Help me here ... who are the largest investors in industry?

So when volkswagon, Ford, Phillips, Samsung, Lenovo, Dell, Motorola, Siemens, Nokia, Emmerson, et al start experiencing brownouts and blackouts due to lack of oil and income starts to fall going into American banks, do you think they just smack a factory into the jungle of a banana republic somewhere that has no skilled labour?

Tell me, do you seriously think that WalMart is going to move production to the USA or at least begin to purchase from injection molders there?

What you fail to realize is that all of America is used to cheap goods now. They are addicted. How many will begin to see spiraling costs as a 'communist plot' and how many will see it as the US administration failing to control inflation?

It's okay to outsource! --- Republican motto.

If the cost of transport goes too high. I suspect that the production will end up in Mexico.

You're right in most ways ... The American workers are not going to see any benefit any time soon.

 

[edward]

What a strange perspective.



Now Haier wants to purchase the Maytag company to take advantage of brand image built up in America and you're saying that this is somehow a 'communist plot' hatched by the 'Communist' Chinese?

Maybe you should look at why it is that Haier is hesitating over the purchase ... Take a look at the debt. Maytag is not long for this world anyway. If it is purchased by Haier, they will make good the company debt meaning they will give money to the American corporations who are the creditors of Maytag dollar for dollar thus saving American OEMs.

If they 'fail to purchase' Maytag goes under and the creditors get pennies on the dollar; all aspects of this business will be closed including marketing, distribution and repair networks.

But this is all a 'commie plot' right?

Is your tinfoil hat on too tight?

Strange or not it is my perspective
The last time I looked the CIA factbook indicated that China is a communist country.

No Plot whatsoever. China, encouraged by big business, has merely outsmarted the USA for the last ten years or so. And it was not at all hard to do, because big business runs the government here. That does not mean that I like it.

You are presuming that Maytag is going to tank. Either way if China gets Maytag thousands of American jobs go to China. The trade deficit with China will increase and the cycle will continue. It would be much better if Maytag moves to Mexico as planned.

Maytag was just one example, there are many more. I am sure that you are aware of that.

There is a big difference between outsourcing jobs and selling entire companies.

 

[The Smoking Man]

No Plot whatsoever. China, encouraged by big business, has merely outsmarted the USA for the last ten years or so. And it was not at all hard to do, because big business runs the government here. That does not mean that I like it.

You are presuming that Maytag is going to tank. Either way if China gets Maytag thousands of American jobs go to China. The trade deficit with China will increase and the cycle will continue. It would be much better if Maytag moves to Mexico as planned.

Maytag was just one example, there are many more. I am sure that you are aware of that.

There is a big difference between outsourcing jobs and selling entire companies.

You said this was a national security issue though.

It amazes me that so many people think that, all national security is about, is having a strong military and lots of oil.

Wars are fought over national security issues. Using the term loosely to include capitalist take-overs and the like is a dangerous precedent when one realizes that legislation using those words is what allows the President to declare war independent of Congress (short term).

Are you saying that as a 'national security issue', if the president doesn't like the take-over of a company he can order a first strike? THAT's what happens when the Nation's security is threatened.

I suspect that you are a man in search of another term.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Strange or not it is my perspective
The last time I looked the CIA factbook indicated that China is a communist country.

Then a 10 yer old with a copy of the manifesto could disprove your resources.

I'd suggest a plane trip so that you can get the 'whole effect'.

It's actually a 'republic' the way the Neocons would like to see the USA.

 

[solutions in a box]

You said this was a national security issue though.

When a nation is stripped of its industrial capacity as the USA has been in the last 15 years.

It is a national security issue.

 

[edward]

Then a 10 yer old with a copy of the manifesto could disprove your resources.

I'd suggest a plane trip so that you can get the 'whole effect'.

It's actually a 'republic' the way the Neocons would like to see the USA.

This is the information that the Pentagon uses. If it is wrong please contact them. Perhaps even send the 10 year old with the manifesto

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html#Govt

"In late 1978 the Chinese leadership began moving the economy from a sluggish, inefficient, Soviet-style centrally planned economy to a more market-oriented system. Whereas the system operates within a political framework of strict Communist control."

 

[edward]

When a nation is stripped of its industrial capacity as the USA has been in the last 15 years.

It is a national security issue.

Yes, I agree. In addition it is the whole picture that determines national security. Industry, Technology, Education, Economy.

 

[alexandra]

Question ... Who do you think is the largest user of power in China?

Industry.

Help me here ... who are the largest investors in industry?

So when volkswagon, Ford, Phillips, Samsung, Lenovo, Dell, Motorola, Siemens, Nokia, Emmerson, et al start experiencing brownouts and blackouts due to lack of oil and income starts to fall going into American banks, do you think they just smack a factory into the jungle of a banana republic somewhere that has no skilled labour?

Tell me, do you seriously think that WalMart is going to move production to the USA or at least begin to purchase from injection molders there?

What you fail to realize is that all of America is used to cheap goods now. They are addicted. How many will begin to see spiraling costs as a 'communist plot' and how many will see it as the US administration failing to control inflation?

It's okay to outsource! --- Republican motto.

If the cost of transport goes too high. I suspect that the production will end up in Mexico.

You're right in most ways ... The American workers are not going to see any benefit any time soon.

TSM, I do not object to US investment being shifted to China (or any other specific country) at all - I object to the entire capitalist system because of its exploitation and destructiveness! Yes, I know to you this means I wear "a tin foil hat", but that's ok - if I changed my beliefs to suit everyone else instead of basing them on my own research and understanding of the world, I'd be a pathetic excuse for a human being.

In short, I was just pointing out that this scenario is to be expected in capitalist societies, so your final sentence repeats the essence of the only message I was trying to convey. I have no problems with China (except, perhaps, that it claims to be a communist society but is not).

 

[The Smoking Man]

This is the information that the Pentagon uses. If it is wrong please contact them. Perhaps even send the 10 year old with the manifesto

You dare quote the people who bombed the Chinese embassy because their intel was a 10 year old tourist map?

You're right ... they do need a 10 year old with a menifesto to do the analysis.

 

[The Smoking Man]

TSM, I do not object to US investment being shifted to China (or any other specific country) at all - I object to the entire capitalist system because of its exploitation and destructiveness! Yes, I know to you this means I wear "a tin foil hat", but that's ok - if I changed my beliefs to suit everyone else instead of basing them on my own research and understanding of the world, I'd be a pathetic excuse for a human being.

No the tinfoil hat is the perview of the other posters. I respect your reasons ... That of the capitalist minefield we have created ... the one the USA has seemingly lost the map to and that keeps blowing up in their faces as they try to dismantle it when it doesn't go their way.

In short, I was just pointing out that this scenario is to be expected in capitalist societies, so your final sentence repeats the essence of the only message I was trying to convey. I have no problems with China (except, perhaps, that it claims to be a communist society but is not).

What I resent is the declaration of 'National Security' which is, as you know, justification for war when it comes down to the powers of the President.

A lot of these 'rulings' by the US for example over steel and textiles ... well, China can't export stuff to China without having a receiving company in the USA who purchased the product, can they?

They don't just send t-shirts to a dock and hope like heck that sombody purchases them before they get stolen.

Nope ... Export requires importers too.

 

[edward]

You dare quote the people who bombed the Chinese embassy because their intel was a 10 year old tourist map?

You have a good point. I have always believed that the embassy bombing was done sort of accidently on purpose. The old map explanation was a coverup.

You're right ... they do need a 10 year old with a menifesto to do the analysis.

Some times I think the world would be better off if totally unbiased 10 year olds were put in charge of everything

 

[The Smoking Man]

You have a good point. I have always believed that the embassy bombing was done sort of accidently on purpose. The old map explanation was a coverup.


Some times I think the world would be better off if totally unbiased 10 year olds were put in charge of everything

Sometimes, I wonder if you haven't got your wish.

 

[edward]

Sometimes, I wonder if you haven't got your wish.

No I am sure the kids would do a much better job.

 

[The Smoking Man]

TSM, I do not object to US investment being shifted to China (or any other specific country) at all - I object to the entire capitalist system because of its exploitation and destructiveness! Yes, I know to you this means I wear "a tin foil hat", but that's ok - if I changed my beliefs to suit everyone else instead of basing them on my own research and understanding of the world, I'd be a pathetic excuse for a human being.

In short, I was just pointing out that this scenario is to be expected in capitalist societies, so your final sentence repeats the essence of the only message I was trying to convey. I have no problems with China (except, perhaps, that it claims to be a communist society but is not).

Well, the truth finally surfaces as Unocal was swallowed up by Chevron.

China wanted Unocal because it controlled oil interests in Myanmar.

Had they been allowed to purchase the comany, they would have been able to ship oil from a neibouring country directly to where it would be consumed.

Now, they will probably be purchasing more oil from places like Vensuela and shipping across oceans.

Does everyone feel safer now?

Now you will have Chevron shipping oil from Myanmar to the USA ... Hurah!

More tankers going across oceans:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1519&ncid=1505&e=6&u=/afp/20050810/bs_afp/uschinaoilcompany_050810212904

China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said last week it was abandoning its bid for Unocal worth 18.5 billion dollars in cash because of "unprecedented political opposition" in Washington.

Chevron first made an offer for Unocal worth about 61 dollars per share in April.

But CNOOC, keen to gain control of Unocal's drilling and exploration activities in Asia, entered the race in June with an offer of 67 dollars per share, prompting Chevron to raise its offer.

CNOOC's intervention sparked an almighty political furore in Washington as US lawmakers, egged on by Chevron, denounced the prospect of the ninth largest US oil group falling into Chinese communist hands.

CNOOC said it was ready to raise its offer but decided against it because of the political storm whipped up around its bid.

Beijing has made clear its displeasure in the Chinese state press.

"The high-profile takeover battle demonstrated to the world that the United States is not a free economy as it claimed to be," the official China Daily said in an editorial last Thursday.

"An asset for sale has not gone to the buyer that most prized it because of regulatory concerns fuelled by bogus fears and hidden interests," it said.

Unocal would have been a prized acquisition for China as the booming country seeks to gain access to new sources of energy to fuel its breakneck growth.

But it is Chevron instead that wins control of Unocal's operations, which lie largely outside the United States, particularly in Asia.

Unocal has major operations in military-ruled Myanmar, making it the object of vilification for local and foreign pro-democracy campaigners.

You must be so proud ... how does the quote go again ...

"The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to put oil and gas reserves where there are democratic governments."
---Dick Cheney

 

[outsider]

I am more concerned about the fact that China is Carrying billions of dollars of our debt than I am about the Unocal deal. This is going to leave us with an untenable position as far as Chinese expansion into the global market place.

First it was the Saudi's carrying a large portion of our debt and we have had to kiss up to them for last twenty years.

Now we are funding the war in Iraq with the Chinese carrying the debt at the same time we are worried about the Chinese military.
We had tax cuts for the wealthy then sold the debt to China. My God they own us.

I see this as a solid sign that the American economy will collapse upon itself in a few years. It is Enron on a much grander scale.

It's really amazing to me that American's don't realize that the U.S. Government already have a secondary agenda... EXPORTING AMERICA is EVERYWHERE! Outsourcing means fewer jobs, means less money for American people. Importing products means less production which is the same situation. All these weird deals with foreign countries (Bush Admin has never properly confronted the issue about the Bush/Bin Laden family ties) etc, etc...

It just doesn't add up... I don't think China owns America, I think we're beyond political boundaries. There doesn't seem to be any countries that are satisfied with their governments anymore.

The world leaders are all selling out their countries respectively, unrespectably.

I say we all refuse to pay taxes and starve them of their tax addiction. Send them to AA. Admitting you have a problem is the first step they say: "Hello, my name is..."

 

[Smurf]

You might even say... "It's a global conspiracy"

 

[outsider]

You might even say... "It's a global conspiracy"

see for yourself as per the "america poised for world domination" thread:

http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/..._law_p03_bb.wmv

I conveniently saw this AFTER my original post... so if anyone wonders if this link had anything to do with my post.. the answer is NO... but this link fortifies my intuitive beliefs.

(intuitive being that i have no first hand evidence and since all evidence that has ever been provided has been contested due to it's nature cannot be concluded as fact) HENCE CONSPIRACY. I have experience starting conspiracies and have been on the receiving end of them too... and in all cases, denial is the key.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Just before we let this drop off the face of the earth, I am going to double post this info for posterity sake:

Hmmmm ... Check this out:

Saturday August 20, 01:15 AM


Unocal auction features Chinese vases, bronze lamps

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Japanese dolls, bronze oil lamps and other company memorabilia owned by Unocal Corp. headed to the auction block after the California oil producer's 115-year run as an independent company ended last week.

Several items -- from a fish-shaped vase to a green jade sculpture of three elephants -- originated in China, whose top offshore oil producer's bid to buy Unocal was spurned by the company in favour of its larger American rival Chevron Corp..

A hand-embroidered silk drawing of a cat, for example, was a gift presented to Unocal in commemoration of the start-up of the largest petrochemical complex in China.

Among other items were the Turtle Ship, a glass encased gold ship from Korea, which last fetched a bid as high as $301 on the auction Web site. Baseball trophies from closer to home were not quite as sought after, showing no bids on them.

So, you blocked the Unocal purchase so they couldn't buy back their own oil refinery!?

Just what was this xeonophobic 'bill of goods' sold to the American people by their government?