Chiral gauge theory and C-symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of charge conjugation symmetry in chiral gauge theory, particularly in the context of spinor electrodynamics and Furry's theorem. Participants explore the relationship between the invariance of the Lagrangian, the vacuum state, and the application of Furry's theorem in scenarios where charge conjugation symmetry may not hold.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assertion that the transformation rule of the vector potential under charge conjugation should be universal across theories.
  • Another participant explains that in spinor electrodynamics, the Lagrangian is invariant under charge conjugation, leading to the conclusion that the three-point function must vanish due to Furry's theorem.
  • A participant challenges whether Furry's theorem can still apply if the Lagrangian lacks charge conjugation symmetry, suggesting that vacuum invariance under charge conjugation might be sufficient.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the vacuum is invariant under charge conjugation, prompting a discussion on the relationship between Lagrangian symmetry and vacuum invariance.
  • It is noted that if a theory has a symmetry and a unique vacuum state, then the vacuum is expected to be invariant under that symmetry; otherwise, no such expectation exists.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Lagrangian symmetry and vacuum invariance, with some asserting that Furry's theorem does not apply without charge conjugation symmetry, while others suggest that vacuum invariance might still hold under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the relationship between the invariance of the vacuum and the invariance of the Lagrangian, as well as the conditions under which Furry's theorem is applicable.

mkgsec
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Hi, I have a question in Srednicki's QFT textbook.

In p.460 section 75(about Chiral gauge theory), it says

"In spinor electrodynamics, the fact that the vector potential is odd under charge conjugation implies that the sum of these diagrams(exact 3photon vertex at one-loop) must vanish."

That's good, because it's just the Furry's theorem for odd number of external photons. But I find the subsequent statement confusing.

"For the present case of a single Weyl field(coupled to U(1) field), there is no charge conjugation symmetry, and so we must evaluate these diagrams."

But shouldn't the transformation rule of A^\mu (x) under C,P or T be universal regardless of specific theory?
 
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In spinor electrodynamics, the Lagrangian is *invariant* under the C operation, which among other things takes ##A \to -A##. One consequence of this is that there should be an equality between the following three-point functions:

##\langle A(x) A(y) A(z) \rangle = \langle(-A(x))(-A(y))(-A(z))\rangle = -\langle A(x) A(y) A(z) \rangle##

The only way this equality can be satisfied is if ##\langle A(x) A(y) A(z) \rangle## vanishes. This is Furry's theorem. This result relies crucially on the fact that the C operation, under which ##A \to -A## and also ##\psi## transforms nontrivially, is a *symmetry of the Lagrangian*. That's why we have the equality above.

In the chiral case, you can still define a transformation under which ##A \to -A## but it is no longer a symmetry of the Lagrangian, no matter what transformation rule you choose for ##\psi##. Therefore you cannot make the same argument and Furry's theorem does not go through.
 
But doesn't Furry's theorem still hold even if the langrangian has no C-symmetry? I thought it is valid as long as the vacuum is invariant under C. What am I missing here?
 
Why do you think the vacuum is invariant under C?
 
Well... Maybe because the vacuum contains no particle? Are the invariance of the vacuum and invariance of lagrangian related to each other?
 
mkgsec said:
Are the invariance of the vacuum and invariance of lagrangian related to each other?

Right. If your theory has a symmetry and you have a unique vacuum state, then the vacuum is invariant under that symmetry. If you have some operation that is not a symmetry of your theory, there's no reason to expect the vacuum to be invariant under that symmetry.
 
It's very clear now! I always assumed that the vacuum is invariant under any operation. Thank you, it was very helpful :)
 

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