Circular Membrane: Solving $u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ with Bessel's Equation

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Dustinsfl
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Circular Membrane
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on solving the wave equation $u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ for a circular membrane using Bessel's Equation. The transformation $u(r,\theta,t) = G(r,\theta)e^{i\omega t}$ leads to the Helmholtz equation, resulting in Bessel's equation for the radial component $R(r)$. The general solution incorporates Bessel functions $\mathcal{J}_{mn}$ and their eigenvalues, with the fixed boundary condition at the membrane's edge. The participants explore the implications of initial conditions on the coefficients $A_{mn}$ and $B_{mn}$, concluding that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$ is a trivial solution.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of partial differential equations, specifically wave equations.
  • Familiarity with Bessel's Equation and Bessel functions.
  • Knowledge of Fourier series and their application in solving boundary value problems.
  • Proficiency in using Mathematica for numerical computations and visualizations.
NEXT STEPS
  • Learn how to derive Bessel's functions and their properties in the context of circular membranes.
  • Study the application of initial conditions in solving partial differential equations.
  • Explore the use of Mathematica for generating tables of Bessel function zeros and eigenvalues.
  • Investigate the implications of boundary conditions on the solutions of wave equations.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, physicists, and engineers working on wave phenomena, particularly in circular geometries, as well as students studying applied mathematics and numerical methods.

Dustinsfl
Messages
2,217
Reaction score
5
$u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ where $\nabla^2 = \frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial }{\partial r}\left(r\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right) + \frac{1}{r^2}\frac{\partial^2}{\partial\theta^2}$.
Suppose $u(r,\theta,t) = G(r,\theta)e^{i\omega t}$.
Then
$$
-\omega^2Ge^{i\omega t} = c^2\nabla^2Ge^{i\omega t}
$$
which leads to the Helmholtz equation $(\nabla^2G + k^2G = 0)$ where $k^2 = \frac{\omega^2}{c^2}$.
Let $G(r,\theta) = R(r)e^{\pm im\theta}$.
Then
$$
\left[\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left(r\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right) + \frac{1}{r^2}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right]Re^{im\theta} + k^2Re^{im\theta} = 0
$$
which leads to
$$
r^2R'' + rR' + (k^2r^2 - m^2)R = 0\quad \text{(Bessel's equation)}.
$$
Therefore, $R(r) = \mathcal{J}_m(kr) = \sum\limits_{j = 0}^{\infty}\frac{(-1)^j}{(j!)^2(k + m)!}\left(\frac{kr}{2}\right)^{2j + m}$.
The circular membrane is of radius $a$ whose edges are fixed.
That is, $R(a) = \mathcal{J}_{mn}(k_{mn}a) = 0$.
Let $z_{mn}$ be the zeros of $J_{mn}$ and $z_{mn} = k_{mn}a\iff k_{mn} = \frac{z_{mn}}{a}$.
Then the form of the general solution is
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(r,\theta,t) & = & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[A_{mn}\cos m\theta + B_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] \cos\left(z_{mn}\frac{ct}{a}\right)\\
& + & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[C_{mn}\cos m\theta + D_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] \sin\left(z_{mn}\frac{ct}{a}\right)
\end{alignat*}
Using the first initial condition, we have\begin{alignat*}{5}
u(r,\theta,0) & = & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[A_{mn}\cos m\theta + B_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] & = & 0
\end{alignat*}
How can I create a table of the eigenvalues for the Bessel equation in Mathematica?
Would it be
Code:
ClearAll["Global`*"]z = Table[N[BesselJZero[m, n]], {n, 1, 20}, {m, 0, 5}];
z // TableForm
{
 {2.40483, 3.83171, 5.13562, 6.38016, 7.58834, 8.77148},
 {5.52008, 7.01559, 8.41724, 9.76102, 11.0647, 12.3386},
 {8.65373, 10.1735, 11.6198, 13.0152, 14.3725, 15.7002},
 {11.7915, 13.3237, 14.796, 16.2235, 17.616, 18.9801},
 {14.9309, 16.4706, 17.9598, 19.4094, 20.8269, 22.2178},
 {18.0711, 19.6159, 21.117, 22.5827, 24.019, 25.4303},
 {21.2116, 22.7601, 24.2701, 25.7482, 27.1991, 28.6266},
 {24.3525, 25.9037, 27.4206, 28.9084, 30.371, 31.8117},
 {27.4935, 29.0468, 30.5692, 32.0649, 33.5371, 34.9888},
 {30.6346, 32.1897, 33.7165, 35.2187, 36.699, 38.1599},
 {33.7758, 35.3323, 36.8629, 38.3705, 39.8576, 41.3264},
 {36.9171, 38.4748, 40.0084, 41.5207, 43.0137, 44.4893},
 {40.0584, 41.6171, 43.1535, 44.6697, 46.1679, 47.6494},
 {43.1998, 44.7593, 46.298, 47.8178, 49.3204, 50.8072},
 {46.3412, 47.9015, 49.4422, 50.965, 52.4716, 53.963},
 {49.4826, 51.0435, 52.586, 54.1116, 55.6217, 57.1173},
 {52.6241, 54.1856, 55.7296, 57.2577, 58.7708, 60.2702},
 {55.7655, 57.3275, 58.873, 60.4032, 61.9192, 63.4221},
 {58.907, 60.4695, 62.0162, 63.5484, 65.067, 66.5729},
 {62.0485, 63.6114, 65.1593, 66.6932, 68.2142, 69.7229}}
\begin{alignat*}{5}
u(r,\theta,0) & = & 0 & & \\
u_t(r,\theta,0) & = & \delta(\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}_0) & = & \delta(r - r_0, \theta - \theta_0) \end{alignat*}
$$
\int_A\delta(\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}_0)f(r,\theta)dA = \int_0^{2\pi}\int_0^a\delta(r - r_0, \theta - \theta_0)f(r,\theta)rdrd\theta = f(\mathbf{x}_0)
$$
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.
 
dwsmith said:
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.
Putting in my two cents:

Both sums are functions of \theta so the only time you could require that A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0 would be when cos(m \theta ) = -sin(m \theta).

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
Putting in my two cents:

Both sums are functions of \theta so the only time you could require that A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0 would be when cos(m \theta ) = -sin(m \theta).

-Dan

Does m being an integer help?
 
dwsmith said:
Does m being an integer help?
Ummm...Not sure what you're trying to say there?

We have the condition that
A_{mn}~cos(m \theta) + B_{mn}~sin(m \theta ) = 0

All I'm saying is that if we have
cos(m \theta) = - sin(m \theta )

tan(m \theta) = -1

etc, etc.
Only certain values of \theta will mandate that the coefficients are zero.

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
Ummm...Not sure what you're trying to say there?

We have the condition that
A_{mn}~cos(m \theta) + B_{mn}~sin(m \theta ) = 0

All I'm saying is that if we have
cos(m \theta) = - sin(m \theta )

tan(m \theta) = -1

etc, etc.
Only certain values of \theta will mandate that the coefficients are zero.

-Dan

Then I am at a loss on solving for the coefficients.
 
Would it be easier perhaps to start with the second initial condition?
If this is correct(below)
$$
C_{0n} = \frac{\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{0n} \left(z_{0n}\frac{r}{a}\right)d\theta dr}{z_{0n}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{1}^2(z_{0n})} = \frac{\mathcal{J}_{0n} \left(z_{0n}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)}{z_{0n}ac\pi \mathcal{J}_{1}^2(z_{0n})},
$$
$$
C_{mn} = \frac{2\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)\cos m\theta d\theta dr}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})} = \frac{2\mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)\cos m\theta_0}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})}\quad m\neq 0,
$$
and
$$
D_{mn} = \frac{2\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \sin m\theta d\theta dr}{z_{mn}ac\pi \mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})} = \frac{2\mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)\sin m\theta_0}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})}.
$$
 
Since we have the double Bessel-Fourier series, A = B = 0 is the answer unless I am missing something I am sure it is 0.
 
dwsmith said:
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.

Hi dwsmith, :)

No. This does not imply that \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\). However \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\) is a trivial solution to,

\[\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta\]

Note that if you have two infinite series \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}\) and \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n}\) equal to one another means that the two series will converge to the same value not that \(a_{n}=b_{n}\).

\[\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}=\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n} \not\Rightarrow a_{n}=b_{n}\]

Kind Regards,
Sudharka.
 
  • #10
Sudharaka said:
Hi dwsmith, :)

No. This does not imply that \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\). However \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\) is a trivial solution to,

\[\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta\]

Note that if you have two infinite series \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}\) and \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n}\) equal to one another means that the two series will converge to the same value not that \(a_{n}=b_{n}\).

\[\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}=\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n} \not\Rightarrow a_{n}=b_{n}\]

Kind Regards,
Sudharka.

It is true because of
dwsmith said:
Since we have the double Bessel-Fourier series, A = B = 0 is the answer unless I am missing something I am sure it is 0.

See http://www.mathhelpboards.com/f13/integrating-delta-bessel-function-2655/ for the coefficients of the double Bessel-Fourier series.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K