Closed form expression for this?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on calculating the probability of drawing n red balls consecutively from an urn containing NA blue balls and NB red balls. The derived formula for this probability is p(n) = ∏i=0n(NA-1)/(NA+NB-i), which simplifies to p(n) = (R/N) * ((R-1)/(N-1)) * ... * ((R-n+1)/(N-n+1)). This can also be expressed using factorials and binomial coefficients as p(n) = (R!/(R-n)!) * ((N-n)!/N!) = C(R,n)/C(N,n). The discussion confirms the correctness of the derivation and explores the closed form of the product.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of probability theory, specifically combinatorial probabilities.
  • Familiarity with factorials and binomial coefficients.
  • Basic knowledge of urn problems in probability.
  • Ability to manipulate mathematical expressions and products.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the concept of combinatorial probability in depth.
  • Learn about factorials and their applications in probability calculations.
  • Explore advanced topics in probability theory, such as hypergeometric distributions.
  • Investigate other urn problems and their solutions for a broader understanding.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, statisticians, students studying probability theory, and anyone interested in combinatorial problems and their applications.

aaaa202
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
2
Say we have NA blue balls and NB red balls mixed together in an urn. When we pick a ball it leaves the urn. I want to find the probability of picking n red balls in a row.
The probability of picking a red ball is:
NA/(NA+NB)
But each time a red ball leaves the urn the probability of picking the next will be:
(NA-1)/(NA+NB-1)
So in general for n successive red ball picks the probability must be:

p(n) = ∏i=0n(NA-1)/(NA+NB-i)

First of all I want to ask if this is correctly deduced. Secondly, I want to know if you can evaluate a product like the above in a closed form.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
aaaa202 said:
Say we have NA blue balls and NB red balls mixed together in an urn. When we pick a ball it leaves the urn. I want to find the probability of picking n red balls in a row.
The probability of picking a red ball is:
NA/(NA+NB)
But each time a red ball leaves the urn the probability of picking the next will be:
(NA-1)/(NA+NB-1)
So in general for n successive red ball picks the probability must be:

p(n) = ∏i=0n(NA-1)/(NA+NB-i)

First of all I want to ask if this is correctly deduced. Secondly, I want to know if you can evaluate a product like the above in a closed form.

I'll change to a nicer notation: we start with N balls altogether, R red and B blue, with R+B=N. If you draw n <= R balls, what is the probability all n are red? Note: this is very different from asking that if we pick all balls, one at a time, we ever get n red balls in a row; that would be a much harder problem.

As you said, the answer is
p(n) = \frac{R}{N} \frac{R-1}{N-1} \cdots \frac{R-n+1}{N-n+1}.
This can be written in terms of factorials and binomial coefficients (if you think that is nicer and fits your definition of "closed form"):
p(n) = \frac{R!}{(R-n)!} \frac{(N-n)!}{N!}= \frac{C(R,n)}{C(N,n)},
where C(a,b) = \frac{a!}{b!(a-b)!} is the binomial coefficient.

RGV
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
3K