Clusters of non-vaccinated children

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the clustering of non-vaccinated children in California and its implications for outbreaks of preventable diseases, particularly in the context of a measles outbreak linked to Disneyland. Participants explore the geographical distribution of unvaccinated children, the impact of personal belief exemptions on vaccination rates, and the historical context of vaccine skepticism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that non-vaccinated children are clustered geographically, which may exacerbate outbreaks of diseases like measles.
  • There is mention of a liberal personal belief exemption in California that allows parents to avoid vaccination requirements for school attendance.
  • Participants express concern for both the children affected by outbreaks and the parents who are perceived as making unwise decisions regarding vaccinations.
  • Some argue that not all parents of unvaccinated children are irresponsible; some may be victims of misinformation or fear regarding vaccines.
  • Discussions include references to historical vaccine controversies, such as the retracted Lancet study linking vaccines to autism, and the ongoing impact of such misinformation on public health.
  • Participants discuss the age-related effectiveness of vaccines in infants and the role of maternal antibodies in providing temporary immunity.
  • There are references to specific statistics regarding vaccination rates in certain counties and schools, highlighting areas with high non-medical exemption rates.
  • One participant asserts that the anti-vaccination movement was significantly influenced by fraudulent claims made by a specific individual, raising ethical concerns about the motivations behind vaccine skepticism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of non-vaccination and the motivations of parents. While there is some agreement on the risks posed by clusters of unvaccinated children, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the characterization of parents and the broader societal implications of vaccine hesitancy.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various studies and statistics, but there are discrepancies in the reported numbers of unvaccinated children and those too young to be vaccinated. The discussion highlights the complexity of vaccine response in infants and the influence of maternal antibodies, which remains a nuanced topic without clear consensus.

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  • #32
Greg Bernhardt said:
This is a wonderfully accessible browser simulation
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...ads-when-kids-get-vaccinated?CMP=share_btn_fb

Very interesting results.

pf.2015.02.05.vax.lucky.jpg


But then, I pushed the refresh button, and got totally different results:

pf.2015.02.05.vax.unlucky.jpg


A lot of luck appears to be involved, after a certain vax rate.

Ah!

Flashbacks!

Do you feel "lucky"? Punks?

​
 
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  • #33
Ran across this on Amazon today. Proof that some companies will do anything to make a dime. :oldruck:

hFD86E28D.jpg


Of course the thousands of comments are the best part of this Amazon offering...
No Braille version?
My infant daughter went blind after contracting measles from an unvaccinated child, and yet there's no braille version of this wonderful book for me to give her someday to explain to her how awesome the disease that took her sight away is.
Almost, but not quite as good as Belinda the Bio-terrorist. But I am looking forward to Melanie, The Neighborhood Pariah; and So Many Funerals: A Children's Counting Book.
 
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  • #34
I liked the comment "As a carpenter who specializes in itty bitty coffins I can't say enough good things about this book, my customer base has been growing at an epidemic rate!"
 
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  • #35
Just poking around about Stephanie Messenger, the author of Marvelous Measles.

She has been to a United States on a promotional tour of her children's books, ( and other ventures I suppose) some of which do appear to be OK from the title.
Is she a misguided mother, who deserves some sympathy as she lost a child, but still...
Quote - Stephanie Messenger is just a trading name used by Stephanie F Bailey. - unquote.
You decide.

Is the site diluted thinking legit?

If what the news media says about pockets of measles occurring in widely separated locations, the herd protection seems to be coming apart.
I do feel sorry for the kids that will contact the preventable diseases. When they grow up with scars and other side affects, if they are still around, will the parents be able to look them in the eye to answer their question "What the h..l were you thinking?"
Stephanie Messenger began her crusade against vaccination after she tragically lost her young child to a medical condition. To this day she states that her child died as a direct result of receiving the triple-antigen vaccine. Stephanie has widely disseminated her story on the internet, and the book Vaccination Roulette which she co-authored, includes her story.
I think it is important to discuss Stephanie's My Vaccination Story here. Stephanie uses this story in her fight against vaccination and it's a story that packs a powerful emotional punch. Given this, we all have a duty of care (Stephanie included) to ensure that such a message is accurate before publicising it. Unfortunately, as tragic and heartbreaking as her story is, I think Stephanie is irresponsible in using this to encourage others not to vaccinate their children.
from
http://www.dilutedthinking.com/hln_story.php

and this
The debacle that is Stephanie Messenger's https://www.physicsforums.com/hln_2015seminars.php raised many questions as to how Messenger is operating her numerous health-related projects.
Over the years Messenger has been involved in projects that were managed by multiple people. It appears now that Messenger is solely responsible for them - using the names interchangeably, different bank accounts and with no other persons (except her husband) appearing to be involved.
from
http://www.dilutedthinking.com/hln_groups.php
 
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  • #36
There is an interesting essay by Sarah Kurchak, titled "I’m Autistic, And Believe Me, It’s A Lot Better Than Measles". The subtitle is "Vaccines don’t cause autism. But even if they did, is being like me really a fate worse than death?" Her point is that the anti-vax position is, when you strip away the trimmings, that it is better to let your child die from a preventable childhood disease than to develop autism.

I don't know if I would use the word "evil" to describe that position. I would say, though, it is totally devoid of virtue.
 
  • #37
Re: the Melanie's Measles book, in the comment section of the 'coffin maker's' review I found a discussion between one 'Dr.' (actually a chiropractor) William Trebing and some other guy. One of the arguments Mr Trebing used was 'I wrote a book, where is your book?'
This led me to exploring who Trebing is, and what is the book he wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1413454402/?tag=pfamazon01-20
UtQS7uS.jpg

Sadly, this one is not as well demolished by negative reviews as Messenger's. The positive ones are actually honest praise.
I wonder how many more anti-vaccer books are out there, skulking on Amazon.
 
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  • #38
Vanadium 50 said:
There is an interesting essay by Sarah Kurchak, titled "I’m Autistic, And Believe Me, It’s A Lot Better Than Measles". The subtitle is "Vaccines don’t cause autism. But even if they did, is being like me really a fate worse than death?" Her point is that the anti-vax position is, when you strip away the trimmings, that it is better to let your child die from a preventable childhood disease than to develop autism.

I don't know if I would use the word "evil" to describe that position. I would say, though, it is totally devoid of virtue.

I think I mentioned the other day that I decided that these people are crackpots.

Sarah's article seems to support my claim:
I’m not sure what the cure is here. Anti-vaxxers are very dedicated to being wrong. As The New York Times’ Brendan Nyhan discovered last year, they’re more resistant to irrefutable facts than vaccinated kids are to preventable diseases.

In looking for a reference to something I read about "Melanie's M. M." being banned in Australia, which I can now find no evidence for, I ran across another set of anti-vax articles:

Anti-vaccination campaigner Sherri Tenpenny cancels Australian tour
28, January, 2015
...
The controversial US anti-vaccination campaigner Sherri Tenpenny has canceled her Australian tour following weeks of public pressure, blaming “anti-free-speech terrorists”.

The osteopath had planned 11 seminars and dinners throughout the country, where people could pay up to $200 to hear her talk about the “dangers” of vaccinations and have their photo taken with her.

Guardian Australia recently revealed eight venues that were due to host Tenpenny had canceled following mounting public pressure.
...
One venue owner, from Queensland, reported receiving a bomb threat, but that was later revealed to have come from an anti-vaccination advocate who was disturbed by the thought that Tenpenny’s event might not go ahead.
...

$200? Where did I read about...

Vanadium 50 said:
This whole anti-vaccination movement was the deliberate creation of Wakefield, who hoped to profit by it.
bolding mine

Thank you.

Anti-vaccination campaigner compares critics to Charlie Hebdo attackers
8, January, 2015
...
Meryl Dorey, a former president of the Australian Vaccination Skeptics Network, drew a comparison with Wednesday’s attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo, which left 12 people dead.

“The organisation that is pushing this censorship is a hate group and they are very much like the groups in France that have been carrying out these actions,” she told 3AW.
...

hmmm... I've never considered PF to be a "hate group". Though, if someone were to start a thread on "The merits of Anti-Vax", I don't think it would stay open very long.
 
  • #39
Je suis Melanie's Measles?