Coefficient of restitution problem?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the coefficient of restitution, particularly in the context of a ball's motion when dropped from a height and its subsequent rebound. Participants explore the relationship between gravitational potential energy and kinetic energy during the ball's fall and rebound, questioning the derivation of the coefficient of restitution formula.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conservation of energy principles, questioning how gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy and the implications of this conversion on the equations used to derive the coefficient of restitution. There are inquiries about the signs in energy change equations and the definitions of potential and kinetic energy.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights into energy conservation and raising questions about the setup of equations. Some express confusion regarding the application of energy principles and the interpretation of signs in energy change equations, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the definitions and relationships of energy forms in the context of a physics problem, with specific attention to the assumptions made about energy conservation during the ball's motion and collision.

fightboy
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The coefficient of restitution, e, of a ball hitting the floor is defined as the ratio of the speed of the ball after it rebounds from the impact to the speed of the ball right before it hits the floor.
Derive a formula for the coefficient of restitution when a ball is released from an initial height H and rebounds to a final height h.

The textbook solution is set up this way:
Before: mgH=1/2mv2before
vbefore=√2gH

After: 1/2mv2after=mgh
vafter=√2gh
With the final answer being e= √(h/H).
I'm confused on the set up, where do the before and after equations come from, particularly mgH and mgh? I know mgy is the gravitational potential energy at a given height, but why is it set equal to 1/2mv2 in the before and after equation?
 
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Their solution comes from conservation of energy. mgH is set equal to \frac{1}{2}mv^2 because the gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy (and vice versa, on the way up).
 
The ball motions under the influence of a conservative force -gravity. So the mechanical energy is conserved both on the way down and on the way up. That does not include the collision with the floor, so energy before and after the collision is not the same. So PE + KE = constant for both up and down, although the mechanical energy up is less than that on the way down.
 
Nathanael said:
Their solution comes from conservation of energy. mgH is set equal to \frac{1}{2}mv^2 because the gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy (and vice versa, on the way up).

That kind of makes sense to me, but in the chapter the equation is listed as ΔK= -ΔUgrav. So if 1/2mv2 represents the kinetic energy, wouldn't the equation be 1/2mv2= -mgH?
 
fightboy said:
That kind of makes sense to me, but in the chapter the equation is listed as ΔK= -ΔUgrav. So if 1/2mv2 represents the kinetic energy, wouldn't the equation be 1/2mv2= -mgH?

When ΔUgrav is positive, is ΔK positive or negative?

When ΔUgrav is negative, is ΔK positive or negative?


The negative sign basically means this:

"If you increase the gravitational potential energy, the kinetic energy decreases."

Similarly,

"If you decrease the gravitational potential energy, the kinetic energy increases."
 
fightboy said:
That kind of makes sense to me, but in the chapter the equation is listed as ΔK= -ΔUgrav. So if 1/2mv2 represents the kinetic energy, wouldn't the equation be 1/2mv2= -mgH?
Gravitational PE is, in general, ##-\frac{GMm}r##. For constant g, that's -gmr. The gain in PE, ΔUgrav, due to a gain Δr in r is therefore -gmΔr.
Choose whether up is positive or negative. E.g., suppose we take up to be positive.
If a ball falls a distance H, what is Δr? Is g positive or negative? So what sign do you get for ΔUgrav?
 
Lets consider the ball falling down and use the subscript i (initial) for the top and f (final) for the bottom. Now since the mechanical energy is conserved we have that

Ui + Ki = Uf + Kf

so that

Ui - Uf = Kf - Ki

The change in a quantity, ∇, is the final value minus the intial value so that

-∇U = ∇K
 
andrevdh said:
The change in a quantity, ∇
Δ is the usual notation.
 
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