Collision of two billiard balls with spin

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    Balls Collision Spin
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the collision of two billiard balls, focusing on the effects of spin and friction during elastic collisions. Participants explore different scenarios involving stationary and moving balls, examining how spin is transferred or altered during these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that in the first scenario, ball 1 stops and retains its spin while ball 2 gains the center of mass velocity of ball 1, questioning the role of friction in spin transfer.
  • Others argue that in the second scenario, both balls reverse their motion and spin, suggesting that friction must be involved despite the assumption of elastic collision.
  • A participant mentions that the table delivers an impulse during the collision, raising questions about why this impulse differs between the two scenarios.
  • There is a discussion about whether friction exists between the balls during the collision, with some asserting that elastic collisions imply no friction between the balls, while others contend that friction from the table is necessary for pure rolling.
  • One participant speculates that the rapid change in center of mass velocity during the second scenario leads to slipping and increased kinetic friction, which could reverse the spin of the balls.
  • Another participant questions the implications of normal force and vertical momentum conservation in relation to the collision dynamics.
  • There is a consideration of how angular momentum is conserved during the collision, with discussions about the role of torque and the effects of the table's response to the collision forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the role of friction, the mechanics of spin transfer, and the implications of normal force during the collisions. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the mechanisms at play.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their assumptions about friction and the nature of the collisions, as well as the need for clearer definitions of scenarios to reconcile differing viewpoints.

  • #31
FallenApple said:
So the reversal happened during the collision but not because of it? So if the other ball wasn't there, the first ball would just keep moving forward but have its rotation changed?
No. No reversal of rotation happened during the collision at all. You are trying to explain an effect that just does not happen.

Consider what happens after a collision in which a ball retains its rotational motion but reverses its linear motion.
 
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  • #32
Going back and re-reading #17, the reversal of rotation is a given. We cannot argue with it. And I have been doing exactly that.

We know that the balls do not accelerate vertically so there can be no impulsive normal force. We are left with the possibility of an impulsive frictional force.
 
  • #33
jbriggs444 said:
Going back and re-reading #17, the reversal of rotation is a given. We cannot argue with it. And I have been doing exactly that.

We know that the balls do not accelerate vertically so there can be no impulsive normal force. We are left with the possibility of an impulsive frictional force.
Thanks for confirming. Regardless, this discussion has really helped me clear up some critical misconceptions I held.

So basically, in a vacuum, when they collide, only linear velocity is reversed and each balls rotation stays the same.

On a table, it could be either way(reversal of rotation or not), depending on the type of material of the surface and material of the billiard balls. And we cannot tell ahead of time so it must be a given in the problem if we are to use frictional impulse.
 

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