Commuting operators and Direct product spaces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the common eigenspace of two commuting Hermitian operators can be considered isomorphic to the direct product of their individual eigenspaces. Participants explore specific examples, such as the eigenspaces of Cartesian operators versus angular momentum operators, and the implications of these relationships in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the conditions under which an eigenket |λ1λ2> can be considered equivalent to the product ket |λ1>|λ2>, using examples from Cartesian and angular momentum operators.
  • Another participant suggests that the doubt may relate to the definition of derivative operators in Hilbert spaces and introduces the concept of Rigged Hilbert Spaces, although the original poster clarifies that this is not the focus of their question.
  • A participant emphasizes that the equivalence of eigenkets to direct products is not generally expected unless the system is specifically constructed to allow for it, citing the example of a 2D particle's Hilbert space.
  • There is mention of the need to understand a complete commuting set of observables, which may be relevant to the discussion of eigenspaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for the isomorphism of eigenspaces and whether certain operator pairs can be treated as direct products. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific examples and concepts from quantum mechanics, indicating that the discussion is dependent on the definitions and properties of the operators involved. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity surrounding the treatment of eigenspaces and the conditions under which they can be considered isomorphic.

aaa
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Under what conditions is the common eigenspace of two commuting hermitian operators isomorphic to the direct product of their individual eigenspaces?
As I'm not being able to precisely phrase my doubt, consider this example: Hilbert space of a two dimensional particle is the direct product of eigenspaces of cartesian X and Y operators. But as far as I know, the common eigenspace of Lz and L2 operators isn't the direct product of their eigenspaces. What is the difference between these two cases?
 
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I am not sure what your doubt is. I will make a guess its the fact derivative operators are only defined on a subset of the two dimensional Hilbert space.

The way its handled is to use what's called Rigged Hilbert Spaces:
http://physics.lamar.edu/rafa/cinvestav/second.pdf

Its basically Hilbert spaces with distribution theory stitched on. Before delving into it, and its also a very good idea for just about any area of applied math, you should become acquainted with distribution theory:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521558905/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the reply. But my doubt is not about rigged Hilbert spaces.
Let me try to rephrase the question:
When can an eigenket |λ1λ2> be considered to be equivalent to the ket |λ1>|λ2>?
For example, the simultaneous eigenkate of cartesian X and Y operators, |xy>, can be equivalently written as |x>|y>. But as far as I know, the eigenket of Lz and L2, |lm>, cannot be written as a direct product of two eigenkets.
 
aaa said:
Thanks for the reply. But my doubt is not about rigged Hilbert spaces.
Let me try to rephrase the question:
When can an eigenket |λ1λ2> be considered to be equivalent to the ket |λ1>|λ2>?
For example, the simultaneous eigenkate of cartesian X and Y operators, |xy>, can be equivalently written as |x>|y>. But as far as I know, the eigenket of Lz and L2, |lm>, cannot be written as a direct product of two eigenkets.

I think you need to get across the idea of a complete commuting set of observables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_set_of_commuting_observables

Thanks
Bill
 
aaa said:
Under what conditions is the common eigenspace of two commuting hermitian operators isomorphic to the direct product of their individual eigenspaces?

You shouldn't expect this to be the case unless the system is explicitly constructed so that it's true. The Hilbert space for a 2D particle is basically defined as the tensor product of two copies of the Hilbert spaces a 1D particle. But in most cases the property you are describing doesn't hold. As another example take the P and H operators for a 1D particle; you shouldn't go taking tensor products here.
 

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