Rindler - uniform acceleration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of light signals and uniformly accelerated motion, specifically addressing the question of how a light signal, which travels faster than an accelerating observer, can never catch up to that observer. Participants explore various explanations and analogies to clarify this phenomenon, including the use of Rindler diagrams and hyperbolic motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how a light signal can be faster yet never catch up with an accelerating observer, seeking alternative explanations beyond diagrams.
  • Another participant suggests that the initial distance between the light signal and the observer, combined with the observer's increasing acceleration, prevents the light signal from catching up.
  • A different participant introduces a mathematical perspective using hyperbolic motion, explaining that an object following a curve representing accelerated motion (C2) will never catch up to an object following a straight line (C1), despite the latter being slower at any given time.
  • Another viewpoint is presented, comparing the situation to Zeno's paradox, noting that as the observer approaches the speed of light, the difference between their speed and the speed of light diminishes but never fully closes the gap.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as multiple competing views and explanations are presented regarding the relationship between the light signal and the accelerating observer.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about frames of reference and the nature of speed in relativistic contexts, which may not be fully resolved or agreed upon by participants.

Lapidus
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So a light signal is sent off some space behind me. At the same time I start accelerating extremely quickly. Even though the light signal will always be faster than me it will never catch up with me.

I have difficulties to understand that something that is always faster than you can still never catch up with you. I know of course the Rindler diagram how the curve of the accelerating spaceship gets closer and closer to the light signal. But is there another way to understand this than by looking at a diagram? How can something that is forever faster than you never catch up with you?

thank you
 
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Lapidus said:
How can something that is forever faster than you never catch up with you?

Because it started off far enough behind you that its speed advantage--which continually decreases as you accelerate--is never enough to make up the distance.
 
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Lapidus said:
So a light signal is sent off some space behind me. At the same time I start accelerating extremely quickly. Even though the light signal will always be faster than me it will never catch up with me.

I have difficulties to understand that something that is always faster than you can still never catch up with you. I know of course the Rindler diagram how the curve of the accelerating spaceship gets closer and closer to the light signal. But is there another way to understand this than by looking at a diagram? How can something that is forever faster than you never catch up with you?

thank you

Just look at the behavior of a hyperbola.

Consider two curves: Curve C1 which has satisfies the equation ##s = t##, where s is distance and t is time. This is a straight line through the origin, with a slope of one.

Next consider the curve C2 which satisfied the equation ##s = \sqrt{t^2 + 1}##, (you could also say it satisfied the equation ##s^2-t^2 -t^2=1##). Curve C2 is a hyperbola. Using calculus, we can calculate the slope of this curve, which represents the speed of an object following this curve.

$$\frac{ds}{dt} = \frac{t}{\sqrt{1+t^2}}$$

We then make two observations.

An object following curve c1 never "catches up" with an object following curve c2. For any time t, C2 > C1, as ##\sqrt{1+t^2} > t##. If this doesn't seem obvious, square both sides.

The slope of the curve c2 is always less than 1, while the slope of curve c1 is always equal to 1. Thus the slope of curve c2 is less than the slope of curve c1, or the speed of an object following c2 is always less than the speed of an object following curve c1. This again follows from the fact that ##\sqrt{1+t^2} > t##

We have previously noted that an object following curve C1 can never catch up with an object following curve C2, even though we've just proved that the object following C2 is always slower than the object following curve c1.

If we draw out curve C2, we'd say that it's a hyperbola. And curve C1 is the asymptote of the hyperbola. And we'd say that the hyperboa approaches the asymptote ever more closely as time increases, but never reaches it.

Uniformly accelerated motion is called hyperbolic motion, and in fact curve C2, with the right choice of origin and scale, is a possible motion for a uniformly accelerating observer.
 
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I would add one more explanation from little different point of view:

Look at it from the point of your initial inertial frame of reference where you started to accelerate. In this frame, you will get relativly quickly to 0,99% of speed of light, then 0,999% speed of light and so one. So the difference between your speed and the speed of light is getting smaller and smaller (in this particular frame of reference). Thus you get to something very similar to Zenos paradox of Achilles and the tortoise.
 
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