Composing permutations in cycle notation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around composing permutations in cycle notation, specifically within the symmetric group S3. Participants explore methods for efficiently calculating the composition of permutations and share their understanding of how to interpret cycle notation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a faster method to compose permutations in cycle notation, specifically for the permutations (2, 3) and (1, 2, 3).
  • Another participant suggests that the composition should be read from the right, providing a detailed breakdown of how the cycles interact to produce the resulting permutation.
  • A later reply confirms understanding of the method and expresses gratitude for the explanation.
  • Another participant reiterates the breakdown of the permutations, explaining the changes each element undergoes through the composition.
  • One participant notes that their method of explanation is similar to the previous one but presented in a different format.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the method of composing permutations by reading from the right, but there is no explicit consensus on a singular "quick" method, as different participants present their approaches and reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express a desire for a more efficient way to handle compositions, indicating that the current methods may still be perceived as slow or cumbersome.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in group theory, particularly those studying permutations and cycle notation, may find the discussion beneficial for understanding different approaches to composition.

radou
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I'm currently going through a text about groups, and I'm having problems with composing permutations written in cycle notation, i.e. there are lots of examples and I'm expected to be able to calculate them pretty 'fast', so, is there a way to 'read out' the composition of two permutations direct from the cycle notation (I use standard function composition, which is rather slow), for example, if I have the symmetric group S3, and let's say two of its elements, (2, 3) and (1, 2, 3), how can I figure out what (2, 3) o (1, 2, 3) is? Thanks in advance.
 
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Don't you just read from the right? So, (2 3)(1 2 3) is the permutation \left(\begin{array}{ccc}1&2&3\\3&2&1\end{array}\right), since the right cycle sends 1 to 2, which in turn gets sent to 3 by the left cycle. The right cycle sends 2 to 3, which is then sent to 2 by the left cycle, and finally the right one sends 3 to 1, which remains unchanged by the left.

edit: That might be the way you say you do it. If so, I can't help, as that's the way I was taught!
 
Last edited:
cristo said:
Don't you just read from the right? So, (2 3)(1 2 3) is the permutation \left(\begin{array}{ccc}1&2&3\\3&2&1\end{array}\right), since the right cycle sends 1 to 2, which in turn gets sent to 3 by the left cycle. The right cycle sends 2 to 3, which is then sent to 2 by the left cycle, and finally the right one sends 3 to 1, which remains unchanged by the left.

edit: That might be the way you say you do it. If so, I can't help, as that's the way I was taught!

I *finally* got it. Thanks cristo! :smile:
 
radou said:
I *finally* got it. Thanks cristo! :smile:

You're welcome!
 
Apparently you already have it but I'll stick my oar in anyway!

Here's how I would do that problem:
(1 2 3) means "1 changes to 2, 2 changes to 3, and 3 changes to 1".
(2, 3) means "2 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 2".

Okay, putting them together, 1 changes to 2 and 2 changes to 3. so 1 changes to 3. 2 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 2, so 2 changes to 2. 3 changes to 1 and 1 does not change, 3 changes to 1.
1 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 1. 2 does not change. In cycle notation that is (1 3).
 
HallsofIvy said:
Apparently you already have it but I'll stick my oar in anyway!

Here's how I would do that problem:
(1 2 3) means "1 changes to 2, 2 changes to 3, and 3 changes to 1".
(2, 3) means "2 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 2".

Okay, putting them together, 1 changes to 2 and 2 changes to 3. so 1 changes to 3. 2 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 2, so 2 changes to 2. 3 changes to 1 and 1 does not change, 3 changes to 1.
1 changes to 3 and 3 changes to 1. 2 does not change. In cycle notation that is (1 3).

That's exactly how I got it. I was just trying to find a quick way to look at these, since they occur often in my textbook, at least in the current chapter.
 
That is a quick way to look at it. As quick as the previous one. In fact it is identical to the previous one but written horizontally rather than vertically.
 

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