Conceptual Second order differential eqn question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptual understanding of second order nonhomogeneous differential equations, specifically the definitions and roles of general solutions, particular solutions, and complementary functions. Participants explore the implications of different notations and terminologies used in the context of these equations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if ##Y_1## and ##Y_2## are solutions of a nonhomogeneous second order differential equation, then ##Y_1 - Y_2## is a solution to the associated non-homogeneous equation, while others challenge this by stating it is not true without further qualification.
  • There is a question about the choice of labeling solutions as ##Y_1 = y(x)## and ##Y_2 = y_p(x)## versus the reverse, with some participants suggesting that the order of labeling does not affect the outcome.
  • Participants express confusion about the terminology of 'particular solution' and 'particular integral', questioning whether these terms refer to different concepts or the same idea in different contexts.
  • One participant notes that using "particular integral" may reduce confusion compared to "particular solution".
  • There is a query regarding the origin of the term 'integral' in 'particular integral', indicating a desire for clarification on terminology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the validity of certain statements regarding solutions of differential equations. There is no consensus on the implications of labeling solutions or the terminology used, as some participants find the terms interchangeable while others do not.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion stemming from the definitions of particular solutions and particular integrals, as well as the implications of labeling conventions in the context of differential equations.

CAF123
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I know that if ##Y_1## and ##Y_2## are two solutions of a nonhomogeneous second order differential eqn, then ##Y_1 - Y_2## is also a solution. So this motivates the following: if we set ##Y_1 = y(x)##, where ##y(x) ## is an arbritary soln of the nonhomogeneous ODE and ##Y_2 = y_p(x)##, some particular soln, we get that ##Y_1 - Y_2## is a solution to the corresponding complementary equation, $$ a(Y_1 - Y_2)'' + b(Y_1 - Y_2)' + c(Y_1 - Y_2) = 0,$$ ie ##y_c(x) = Y_1 - Y_2 = y(x) - y_p(x)##.
I have two questions:
1)Why set ##Y_1 = y(x)## and ##Y_2 = y_p(x)##? Could we have set ##Y_1 = y_p(x) ##and ##Y_2 = y(x)## so that in the end we get ##y(x) = y_p(x) - y_c(x),## where to recover the usual ##y(x)= y_p(x) +y_c(x),## we introduce an arbritary negative for the constants in the ##y_c(x)## term?

2) I often read questions: Find the general soln of ... and given the initial conditions...find the particular soln. I can do these questions fine. Conceptually though and understanding what is going on, I get a little confused here because we have already defined the term 'particular soln' (as above ##y_p(x)##) in order to find the general soln. So is this two different things with the same term attached to them? I recall that ##y_p(x)## is sometimes called the particular integral?
 
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CAF123 said:
I know that if ##Y_1## and ##Y_2## are two solutions of a nonhomogeneous second order differential eqn, then ##Y_1 - Y_2## is also a solution.
NO! You don't know that- it is not true. If [itex]Y_1[/itex] and [itex]Y_2[/itex] are two solutions of the same nonhomogeneous differential equation, then [itex]Y_1- Y_2[/itex] is a solution to the associated non-homogeneous equation.

So this motivates the following: if we set ##Y_1 = y(x)##, where ##y(x) ## is an arbritary soln of the nonhomogeneous ODE and ##Y_2 = y_p(x)##, some particular soln, we get that ##Y_1 - Y_2## is a solution to the corresponding complementary equation, $$ a(Y_1 - Y_2)'' + b(Y_1 - Y_2)' + c(Y_1 - Y_2) = 0,$$ ie ##y_c(x) = Y_1 - Y_2 = y(x) - y_p(x)##.
Okay, now that is true- and is not what you said above.

I have two questions:
1)Why set ##Y_1 = y(x)## and ##Y_2 = y_p(x)##? Could we have set ##Y_1 = y_p(x) ##and ##Y_2 = y(x)## so that in the end we get ##y(x) = y_p(x) - y_c(x),## where to recover the usual ##y(x)= y_p(x) +y_c(x),## we introduce an arbritary negative for the constants in the ##y_c(x)## term?
I don't see any difference. You are just changing which function you call [itex]Y_1[/itex] and which you call [itex]Y_2[/itex].

2) I often read questions: Find the general soln of ... and given the initial conditions...find the particular soln. I can do these questions fine. Conceptually though and understanding what is going on, I get a little confused here because we have already defined the term 'particular soln' (as above ##y_p(x)##) in order to find the general soln. So is this two different things with the same term attached to them? I recall that ##y_p(x)## is sometimes called the particular integral?
Yes, "particular integral" is a better term than "particular solution".
 
HallsofIvy said:
NO! You don't know that- it is not true. If [itex]Y_1[/itex] and [itex]Y_2[/itex] are two solutions of the same nonhomogeneous differential equation, then [itex]Y_1- Y_2[/itex] is a solution to the associated non-homogeneous equation.
Should that be the 'associated homogeneous' eqn?


I don't see any difference. You are just changing which function you call [itex]Y_1[/itex] and which you call [itex]Y_2[/itex].
Changing the order will mean that the general solution is the complementary function - the particular integral rather than the complementary function + the particular integral, no?(since it is strictly ##Y_1 - Y_2##)

Yes, "particular integral" is a better term than "particular solution".
Ok, thanks. So ##y_p(x)## should really be called particular integral so as to avoid confusion. Where did the 'integral' come from in its name?
 
Can you help?
 

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