Concerned with all the pessimism surrounding PhDs lately

[discrete*]

I know a number of people with PhD's who say they only have a BS on their resume so that they can get a better paying job.

Some have even asked their grad schools if there is any way to get a PhD rescinded so that they won't have to worry about their employer ever finding out about said PhD.

I sincerely hope this is false, or grossly exaggerated. I find no logical reason for this to possibly be true.

 

[Norman]

I call bull**** as well.

Just to echo the sentiment, I call BS also.

How exactly would one explain the giant hole in a resume or CV for the 5 years or so anyway?

And exactly how could having more education force someone to pay you less?

 

[Ryker]

I sincerely hope this is false, or grossly exaggerated. I find no logical reason for this to possibly be true.

Well, if it isn't false, then I guess it just goes to show you can still be a complete dumbass even after obtaining a PhD

 

[TMFKAN64]

I've never found having a Ph.D. anything but a major advantage in looking for a job and asking for more money.

Other people's experiences vary, of course, but it seems to me that there is a lot of unwarranted fear and loathing about the "dangers" of having a Ph.D.

 

[johng23]

I'm just a little bit into the second year of my PhD so I don't have the perspective of some others, but for what it's worth, I'm having a great time so far. Some of the other grad students in my group are decidedly not having a great time. But I think the difference between them and myself is that I wanted to do a PhD for its own sake, to keep learning about science. I'm not losing any money right now - in fact, I'm living comfortably and saving a little bit on top of it (although this varies between programs of course). And I believe that wherever I end up, I'll be able to make the best of it. If it's not academia, then so be it.

If you want to do it for the experience itself, then I think you will enjoy it and be happy. It's when you do it for the end goal that you get into trouble. Of course you need to have a long term plan, but there are people out there who think that you have to suffer through something now to get what you want later. And I think those are the people who are miserable their whole life.

 

[Ryker]

I'm just a little bit into the second year of my PhD so I don't have the perspective of some others, but for what it's worth, I'm having a great time so far. Some of the other grad students in my group are decidedly not having a great time. But I think the difference between them and myself is that I wanted to do a PhD for its own sake, to keep learning about science. I'm not losing any money right now - in fact, I'm living comfortably and saving a little bit on top of it (although this varies between programs of course). And I believe that wherever I end up, I'll be able to make the best of it. If it's not academia, then so be it.

If you want to do it for the experience itself, then I think you will enjoy it and be happy. It's when you do it for the end goal that you get into trouble. Of course you need to have a long term plan, but there are people out there who think that you have to suffer through something now to get what you want later. And I think those are the people who are miserable their whole life.

The more I read on this, the more it seems to me that this specific question the OP posed doesn't really have to do that much with the Physics PhD itself, but more with the general outlook on life. Perhaps there's just that much more pessimism, because Physics attracts more people that aren't as easygoing as some of their Arts counterparts (if I may generalize), who pinpoint success to a more specific degree, who are harder on themselves and on what they want to accomplish, and who therefore experience "defeat" or deviation from their original plans as more bitter.

 

[murmillo]

I'm a junior math major at a small liberal arts college and I find this thread helpful. I am considering going for a math Ph.D. because I enjoy math and want to pursue it further and also because I'd like to become a math professor. I have not really looked into jobs in industry. Are these reasons good reasons for pursuing a PhD?

My family is lower-middle class. I'm concerned about going for a PhD because I also want to become better off financially and getting a Ph.D will probably forestall my ability to make money and live better.

Could anyone provide any guidance on what I should be doing at this point? Should I ask math professors that I know at my college and express these thoughts to them? I just feel uncertain about my future (Should I get a PhD or try to get a job right after college? What are the job prospects in academia should I choose to get a PhD?).

 

[Caramon]

Murmillo,
Continue to work hard during your undergraduate and I would suggest transferring to a larger/recognized school after two years so that you graduate from somewhere with recognition rather than Nebraska Community College where no one will take you seriously for graduate school if you do decide to go that route.

Either way if you do decide to stay at your small liberal arts college or transfer it is essential to get a good grasp on the following math courses:
-Calculus I, II
-Advanced Calculus I, II (Also known as Calculus III, IV)
-Linear Algebra I, II
-Theory of Functions of a Complex Variable
-Differential and Partial Differential Equations
-Various Geometry and Topology courses
-Statistics
-Discrete Mathematics and Probability

If you can succeed in all of these general class areas and graduate with an excellent GPA 3.7+, even if you graduate from your small college you will have a chance at getting into graduate schools ranked around top 50 to top 250.

I would definitely encourage going to graduate school, but first finish your undergraduate before "deciding" on if you want to be a professor or work in industry, etc. The most important thing right now is to do excellent in all of your undergraduate classes! If you work in Finance you will make millions (hyperbole), if you work in Academia you wont. If you have some sort of a relationship with your professors express these concerns to them in third or fourth year. If you ask them in your first year they will likely give an iteration of, "Oh silly child, you have much to learn".

Good luck! Pursue that PhD in Mathematics and do some awesome research so that in a few hundred years some engineers will use something pure mathematics thought was completely inapplicable to reality!

 

[discrete*]

The more I read on this, the more it seems to me that this specific question the OP posed doesn't really have to do that much with the Physics PhD itself, but more with the general outlook on life. Perhaps there's just that much more pessimism, because Physics attracts more people that aren't as easygoing as some of their Arts counterparts (if I may generalize), who pinpoint success to a more specific degree, who are harder on themselves and on what they want to accomplish, and who therefore experience "defeat" or deviation from their original plans as more bitter.

This is a good point, and one that I hadn't considered until you brought it up. There's some degree of truth to what you said, however I think these questions specifically arose from the issue of obtaining a PhD with all the uncertainty that now surrounds it.



My hope in starting the thread is not to change any opinions or to break new ground, it is merely to clarify certain issues and kind of take the spin off of things. I feel like a lot of the negativity is possible coming from those that feel like they've wasted their time with the PhD; and on the contrary, that a lot of the positivity is coming from those that have been successful in academia. There's got to be a certain truth somewhere in the middle, no matter how ambiguous it may seem. I think we've gotten a lot of great answers in this thread so far, and I hope that more people from both sides contribute.

To that end, I'll pose another question set; this one to those that work outside of academia (government, private industry, quants etc...):

1. Are you happy that you got your PhD, or do you feel as though you would have been just as successful without it?

2. Would you be happier in academia?

3. What do you say to those that "look down" on applied fields?

4. Was the transition from a pure or theoretical subject to an applied subject difficult -- and to what degree? (If applicable)