Conditional probability for normally R.V

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating conditional probabilities involving normally distributed independent random variables (R.V.s) in the context of detecting signals in a pulse divided into slots. Participants explore various formulations of the probability of correct detection based on the relationships between these random variables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a probability calculation for the scenario where two slots (w1, w2) must be smaller than the minimum of three other slots (w3, w4, w5), considering the mean (mu) is greater than zero.
  • Another participant suggests that the transition from an initial probability expression to a simplified form is valid due to the independence of the random variables, but questions whether this independence holds in the context of their calculations.
  • Different formulations for the probability of correct detection are presented, with one participant deriving an expression involving integrals and the Q-function, while another presents an alternative formulation, leading to a query about which is correct.
  • One participant introduces the concept of order statistics to analyze the relationship between the maximum and minimum of the random variables involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain probability expressions and the independence of the random variables. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which of the proposed equations for probability is correct.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on the properties of independent and identically distributed random variables, but the implications of these properties in the context of their calculations are debated. The discussion also touches on the application of order statistics, which may introduce additional considerations.

ehudwe
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w1,w2,w3,w4,w5 are normally distributed i.i.d R.V.

I want to calculate the probability that slots 1&2(w1,w2) are smaller than slots 3,4,5 (where mu>0)

I'm able to calculate the probability that slot 1 is smaller than 3,4,5, now I'm stuck on the calculation for slot 2, where i know that i have to consider the outcomes from the first calculation, for example if i know that w1(slot 1) is larger than w2(slot 2), than the probability that w2(slot 2) is smaller than (3,4,5) is 1.

until now i was sure that the whole probability is :

$$
P_{correct}= P(w_1<\mu+w_3)P(w_1<\mu+w_4)P(w_1<\mu+w_5)P(w_2<\mu+w_3)P(w_2<\mu+w_4)P(w_2<\mu+w_5)
$$
now i am thinking of:
$$
P_{correct}= P(w_1<\mu+w_3)P(w_1<\mu+w_4)P(w_1<\mu+w_5)P(w_2<\mu+w_3|w_1<w_2)P(w_2<\mu+w_4|w_1<w_2)P(w_2<\mu+w_5|w_1<w_2)P(w_2<\mu+w_3|w_2<w_1)P(w_2<\mu+w_4|w_2<w_1)P(w_2<\mu+w_5|w_2<w_1)
$$where the last 3 terms are equal to 1 because i have the knowledge that $$P(w1<μ+w3)P(w1<μ+w4)P(w1<μ+w5) $$
any help will be appreciated.
 
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How do i edit my post ? i want to revise the question
 
rewrite my question, i didn't find how to just edit

the following modulation is in the frequency domain, x-axis is frequency , y-axis is amplitude of electric current.

the signal is a pulse divided to 5 equally slots by means of electrical current where 2 "holes" indicating the binary message.
for this example my constellation size is 2^3. therefore 5C2 = 10 combinations is possible in this setup (5 slots and 2 "holes") and i'll will use 8 of them.

i am trying to calculate probability as described :


kGRAN.png


w1,w2,w3,w4,w5 are normally distributed i.i.d R.V (AWGN).

A correct detection is when the noise in slots 1 and 2 both is smaller than the noise + mu(the current related to the slot).

$$
w_1,w_2<min(\mu+w_3,\mu+w_4,\mu+w_5)
$$


so the probability for correct detection as I'm thinking is:

$$
1. P_{correct}= P(w_1<\mu+w_3\cap w_1<\mu+w_4\cap w_1<\mu+w_5\cap w_2<\mu+w_3\cap w_2<\mu+w_4\cap w_2<\mu+w_5)
$$

if I'm right, i can calculate just one of the terms , because of the i.i.d properties.
$$
2. P_{correct}= P(w_1<\mu+w_3)P(w_1<\mu+w_4)P(w_1<\mu+w_5)P(w_2<\mu+w_3)P(w_2<\mu+w_4)P( w_2<\mu+w_5)
$$
$$
P_{correct}= P(w_1<\mu+w_3)^6
$$
where
$$
P(w_1<\mu+w_3)= \int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi}\sigma}e^{-\frac{w_1^2}{2\sigma^2}}Q(\frac{w_1-\mu}{\sigma})dw_1
$$
hence the error probability is :
$$
P_{error}=1-P_{correct}
$$
therefore the general case with n- slots and k- "holes" the probability is
$$
3.P_{correct}=\left[\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi}\sigma}e^{-\frac{x^2}{2\sigma^2}}Q(\frac{x-\mu}{\sigma})dx\right]^{(n-k)k}
$$
i did another calculation with my friend and we got:
$$
4.P_{correct}=\left[\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi}\sigma}e^{-\frac{x^2}{2\sigma^2}}\left[Q(\frac{x-\mu}{\sigma})\right]^{(n-k)}dx\right]^k
$$

i'm trying to understand which of Eq.3 or Eq.4 is the correct answer ? and the transition from Eq.1 to Eq.2 is legal, meaning, are slots 1,2,3,4,5 are absolutely independent ?
 
ehudwe said:
A correct detection is when the noise in slots 1 and 2 both is smaller than the noise + mu(the current related to the slot).

$$
w_1,w_2<min(\mu+w_3,\mu+w_4,\mu+w_5)
$$

A way to put that in familiar territory is:

max(w_1,w_2) &lt; min(\mu+w_2,\mu+w_4,\mu+w_5)

Look at the theory of "order statistics" to find out how the max and min are distributed.
 
thanks I'm hoping it will do the work.
 

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