Conduction of heat from metal to air

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of heat conduction from metal to air, particularly in the context of why metal feels colder than wood in winter. Participants explore the molecular-level processes involved in heat transfer, including conduction, convection, and radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that iron is more conductive than wood, which leads to different heat transfer rates, but the exact mechanisms at the molecular level remain unclear.
  • One participant questions the perception of coldness, suggesting that metal transfers heat away from the body faster than wood due to its higher thermal conductivity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that heat transfer from metal to air involves conduction, convection, and potentially radiation, but the dominant mechanism is conduction within the metal itself.
  • There is a discussion about the role of radiation in heat exchange, with some participants arguing that significant temperature differences are necessary for radiation to play a major role.
  • One participant mentions that convection is a significant factor in heat transfer from metal to air, especially in the presence of wind, which replenishes the air molecules adjacent to the metal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relative importance of conduction, convection, and radiation in heat transfer from metal to air. There is no consensus on the primary mechanism or the specifics of the molecular processes involved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about temperature differences and the conditions under which heat transfer occurs are not fully explored. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of how heat transfer mechanisms interact in practical scenarios.

Shehbaj singh
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
A typical example is a iron chair gets cold in winters and wooden chain not. We all know iron is more conductive but how this thing possible at molecular level of conduction of heat from metal to air. In general conduction I know it is possible due to vibration transfer of molecules but how it's possible from metal to air. Please explain at molecular level.
 
Science news on Phys.org
Shehbaj singh said:
A typical example is a iron chair gets cold in winters and wooden chain not.

not so.

Can you refine your question or provide the source you found this?

PS: If you put a whole bunch of different things at room temperature in a cold refrigerator, do you think any will be colder than any other after sufficient time has passed? Some may get colder faster or slower due to conduction, convection [or radiation] but all will end up at the ambient temperature of the refrigerator, right?
 
alw34 said:
not so.

Can you refine your question or provide the source you found this?

PS: If you put a whole bunch of different things at room temperature in a cold refrigerator, do you think any will be colder than any other after sufficient time has passed? Some may get colder faster or slower due to conduction, convection [or radiation] but all will end up at the ambient temperature of the refrigerator, right?
Okay I am taking about rate of flow of heat. And it's in time limit like we put chairs from indoor to outside for five minutes. That's what I talking about why metal gets cold faster with only contact with air.
 
Hi,
Conduction electrons...loosely bound electrons...same reason as some materials are insulators [wood] others are conductors [iron] of electricity...
those with loosely bound electrons can diffuse more quickly carrying either heat energy of electrical energy or both from atom to atom...

A few views:
Electrical conductivity of non-metals is determined by the susceptibility of electrons to excitation from the valence band to conduction band...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_and_conduction_bands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer#Conduction
[has a link to more details]

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/sm1/lectures/node86.html
 
You are probably mistaking your perception of the metal chair being cold for the reality of what temperature it really is. Metal chairs both hold and transfer heat faster than wooden ones, which have a lot of air in them, which insulates them. So a metal one will transfer heat from you faster than a wooden one and because our perceptions of "cold" and "hot" are largely based on heat transfer rate, the metal chair will feel colder even if it is not.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: CWatters and PietKuip
alw34 said:
Hi,
Conduction electrons...loosely bound electrons...same reason as some materials are insulators [wood] others are conductors [iron] of electricity...
those with loosely bound electrons can diffuse more quickly carrying either heat energy of electrical energy or both from atom to atom...

A few views:
Electrical conductivity of non-metals is determined by the susceptibility of electrons to excitation from the valence band to conduction band...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_and_conduction_bands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer#Conduction
[has a link to more details]

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/sm1/lectures/node86.html
I know about general conduction but I am talking of process of transfer of heat from metal to air. How it happens at molecular level or it's just not conduction and is radiation.
 
Shehbaj singh said:
I know about general conduction but I am talking of process of transfer of heat from metal to air. How it happens at molecular level or it's just not conduction and is radiation.
The heat transfer from <something> to air is effected through convection and radiation. However, the internal transfer of heat through a metal chair is largely due to conduction, which is much faster. Therefore, a metal chair is going to be cold all the way through faster than a wooden chair (since wood is a very bad heat conductor).
 
When you are thinking about heat exchange due to radiation, you are thinking about significant temperature differences. In other words, any substance has to be pretty hot to lose much heat energy via radiation...an incandescent light bulb for example is pretty hot, 2,000 or more Kelvin I think. Since it's encased in a vacuum, virtually all the heat loss is radiation...and something like 97 or 98% of the power is dissipated that way. The largely infrared radiation heats the bulb of course, so it loses heat via conduction as air passes.

See the chart here and the explanation beneath:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation
 
Last edited:
alw34 said:
When you are thinking about heat exchange due to radiation, you are thinking about significant temperature differences. In other words, any substance has to be pretty hot to lose much heat energy via radiation...an incandescent light bulb for example is pretty hot, 2,000 or more Kelvin I think. Since it's encased in a vacuum, virtually all the heat loss is radiation...and something like 97 or 98% of the power is dissipated that way. The largely infrared radiation heats the bulb of course, so it loses heat via conduction as air passes.

See the chart here and the explanation beneath:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation
Everything in universe radiates heat except those with temperature of 0kelvin.
 
  • #10
Shehbaj singh said:
Everything in universe radiates heat except those with temperature of 0kelvin.

Yes, but if you have two objects (say A and B), then A radiates heat to B and B radiates heat to A. If they have the same temperature, the heat radiated equals the heat received; there is no net heat transfer between A and B. If the temperatures are "close" the net heat transfer is "negligible."

Metal to air heat transfer is, as said above, by convection. If there is a wind, the air molecules adjacent to the metal are constantly being replenished, and thus carry heat from the warm metal. If there is no wind, the heated air expands and rises, creating its own wind so to speak.

For normally experienced situations (like chairs on the patio) the convection is more significant than the radiation term.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K