Confusing chain differentiation rule

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain differentiation rule for functions of multiple variables, specifically focusing on the composition of functions and the interpretation of partial derivatives in this context. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of derivatives when dealing with vector-valued functions and their implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to compute the partial derivatives of the composition f(g), noting that g is a vector-valued function, which complicates the interpretation of the derivatives.
  • Another participant explains that the total derivative of g is a matrix while the total derivative of f is a vector, suggesting that their combination yields a vector.
  • A concrete example is provided, illustrating the differentiation of a function h defined in terms of u and v, leading to a specific formula for the partial derivative with respect to x.
  • Further inquiry is made regarding the meaning of the notation ∂f/∂u and whether a proposed formula for the partial derivative of h is correct.
  • Another participant asserts that ∂f/∂u is indeed the partial derivative of f with respect to u, but challenges the correctness of the proposed formula, arguing that it misinterprets the variables involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the partial derivatives and the correctness of the proposed formula. There is no consensus on the validity of the formula or the proper interpretation of the variables involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the definitions of the functions involved and the assumptions made about their differentiability and variable dependencies.

frb
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If I have a function f from RxR to R, and a function g from RxR to RxR. What are the partial derivatives of the composition f(g)? I end up multiplying the derivative of f with g, but g is a vector? The partial derivative should have its image in R.
 
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Well, the total derivative of g is a matrix, whereas the total derivative of f is a vector. Together, they yield a vector.

Let's take a concrete example:
[tex]h(x,y)=f(u(x,y),v(x,y)), g(x,y)=(u(x,y),v(x,y))[/tex]
We have therefore, for example:
[tex]\frac{\partial{h}}{\partial{x}}=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{u}}\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{v}}\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}[/tex]
This is then one of the two partial derivatives of h, the other being differentiation with respect to y.
 
arildno said:
Well, the total derivative of g is a matrix, whereas the total derivative of f is a vector. Together, they yield a vector.

Let's take a concrete example:
[tex]h(x,y)=f(u(x,y),v(x,y)), g(x,y)=(u(x,y),v(x,y))[/tex]
We have therefore, for example:
[tex]\frac{\partial{h}}{\partial{x}}=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{u}}\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{v}}\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}[/tex]
This is then one of the two partial derivatives of h, the other being differentiation with respect to y.

what does
[tex]\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{u}}[/tex]
mean? Is the following formula correct?
[tex]\frac{\partial{h}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}(u(a,b),v(a,b))\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}(u(a,b),v(a,b))\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)[/tex]
 
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frb said:
what does
[tex]\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{u}}[/tex]
mean?
It means the partial derivative of f with respect to u, of course. What else could it mean?

Is the following formula correct?
[tex]\frac{\partial{h}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}(u(a,b),v(a,b))\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}(u(a,b),v(a,b))\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}(a,b)[/tex]
It doesn't make sense. If f(u(a,b),v(a,b)) makes any sense then f is a function of u and v, not x and y. You must mean [tex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial u}[/tex] not [tex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}[/tex].
 

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