Conservation of Energy with non-allowed states

In summary, electrons at the Fermi level of an insulator gain potential energy when an electric field is applied, but so do all other electrons and states around them. The energy states that allow conduction are still far away and thermal energy can bring electrons to the conduction band. The existence of any gap, regardless of size, prevents conduction, but for smaller band gaps, thermal energy can still bring electrons to the conduction band. The continuum limit is just an approximation and the differences between levels are too small to be noticeable in macroscopic objects. V is not constant in the case of an electric field, but all electrons at the same place gain the same energy.
  • #1
gyroscopeq
15
0
(This though came up while learning about band structure, so that is how I am going to explain it, but I think it applies equally well to a square well, for example).

Say you have an electron at the Fermi level of an insulator. Then, you apply an electric field. No current flows, because all of the states of higher momentum (i.e. kinetic energy) require giving the electron a bunch of energy to get to, due to the band gap. What happens to the energy that should be given to every electron, qV? It seems like applying this field needs to be giving the electrons energy. Is it the case that they are essentially just given potential energy? In that case, is it also accurate to say that there is no classical analog for the "force" that would need to be holding them in place to keep them from moving in an applied potential, given that it is just something that falls out of the SWE and not a classical potential?

Thank you!
 
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  • #2
They gain potential energy (or lose - the zero-point is arbitrary!), but so do all other electrons and all states around them. The energy states that allow conduction are still far away.

There is no classical analog for band structure in general.
 
  • #3
mfb said:
They gain potential energy (or lose - the zero-point is arbitrary!), but so do all other electrons and all states around them. The energy states that allow conduction are still far away.

By this argument, why would it not be that the existence of *any* gap, regardless of size, prevents conduction? (And more to the point, there is always a small gap between levels, the continuum limit is just an approximation.)

Also, in the case of an electric field, V is by definition *not* constant, right? So why wouldn't some electrons gain more potential energy than others? (I guess at a given point the potential gain would be the same and perhaps that's what's relevant).

Sorry for so many follow ups. This just seems like something that is *very* important to understand completely.
 
  • #4
gyroscopeq said:
By this argument, why would it not be that the existence of *any* gap, regardless of size, prevents conduction?
Thermal energy can bring electrons to the conduction band, for smaller band gaps that happens more often.
(And more to the point, there is always a small gap between levels, the continuum limit is just an approximation.)
Between levels, yes, but not between bands. And the differences between levels are so tiny you cannot note them at all for macroscopic objects.

Also, in the case of an electric field, V is by definition *not* constant, right?
Sure.
So why wouldn't some electrons gain more potential energy than others?
All electrons at the same place gain the same energy.
(I guess at a given point the potential gain would be the same and perhaps that's what's relevant).
Right.
 

1. What is the Conservation of Energy with non-allowed states?

The Conservation of Energy with non-allowed states refers to the principle that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only be transformed from one form to another. This applies even to systems that contain non-allowed states, which are energy states that are theoretically possible but physically impossible to reach.

2. What are some examples of non-allowed states?

Examples of non-allowed states include negative energy states and quantum states that violate the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. These states are considered non-allowed because they do not conform to the laws of physics and cannot be observed in a physical system.

3. How does the Conservation of Energy apply to non-allowed states?

The Conservation of Energy still applies to non-allowed states as it is a fundamental principle of physics. Even though these states cannot be physically reached, they still contribute to the total energy of a system and must be taken into account in energy calculations.

4. Why is it important to consider non-allowed states in energy conservation?

Ignoring non-allowed states in energy conservation can lead to incorrect calculations and predictions. These states may have a significant impact on the overall energy of a system and must be included for a more accurate understanding of energy transformations.

5. How does the concept of entropy relate to non-allowed states in energy conservation?

Entropy, which is a measure of the disorder or randomness of a system, is closely related to non-allowed states in energy conservation. Non-allowed states contribute to the overall entropy of a system, and their inclusion is necessary for a complete understanding of energy transformations and the overall thermodynamic behavior of a system.

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