Conservative Vector Field: Understanding Circulation and Potential Function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a specific vector field defined in the plane and its potential function. Participants explore the conditions under which the vector field is conservative, the implications of different domains, and the calculation of circulation along specific paths.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the vector field defined by f(x,y) is not conservative in the domain D1 = ℝ² - {(0,0)} due to non-zero circulation around a circle centered at the origin.
  • Another participant suggests that in the domain D2, which excludes a ray from the origin, the vector field should be conservative because it is simply connected and meets the necessary conditions.
  • A participant attempts to derive the potential function from the vector field but encounters difficulties, leading to different expressions for the potential function based on the derivatives.
  • One reply points out a trigonometric identity that seems to validate one of the potential function expressions, indicating that the expressions are consistent.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the applicability of the trigonometric identity for negative values and presents calculations of circulation using two different potential functions, noting that they yield opposite signs for the same path.
  • This participant questions the validity of the results, suggesting that the sign of the circulation should not change for the same curve oriented in the same direction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the potential function and the implications of the trigonometric identity. There is no consensus on the resolution of the sign discrepancy in circulation calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the application of trigonometric identities across different domains and the implications for calculating circulation in vector fields. The dependence on specific paths and orientations is also noted.

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Let [itex]f(x,y) = ( \frac{-y}{x^2 + y^2}, \frac{x}{x^2 + y^2})[/itex] with [itex]f : D \subset \mathbb{R}^2 \to \mathbb{R}^2[/itex]

I know if I take [itex]D = D_1 = \mathbb{R}^2 - \{ (0,0) \}[/itex] the vector field is not conservative, for the circulation over a circunference centered at the origin does not equal zero.

But let's see what happens if I take [itex]D = D_2 = \{(x,y) \in \mathbb{R}^2 : (x,y) \neq (0,a), a \geq 0\}[/itex], that is [itex]\mathbb{R}^2[/itex] without the ray starting at the origin and going in the positive-y axis.

With [itex]D_2[/itex] one has [itex]f[/itex] has to be conservative, because the domain is simply connected, and it satisfices the necesary condition (jacobian continuous and symmetric). So together they satisfty a sufficient condition.

The problem arises when I want to calculate the potential function. I get

[itex]\phi'_x = \frac{-y}{x^2 + y^2}[/itex]
[itex]\phi'_y = \frac{x}{x^2 + y^2}[/itex]
so
[itex]\phi \approx - \arctan(\frac{x}{y}) + c(y)[/itex]
[itex]\phi \approx \arctan(\frac{y}{x}) + c(x)[/itex]

And can't see how to get the expression for the potential function.
Is it [itex]\phi(x,y) = \arctan(\frac{y}{x}) - \arctan(\frac{x}{y}) + c[/itex] ?Any idea what is happening here?
Thanks!
 
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Do you remember the trig identity [itex]\arctan(x)+\arctan(\frac{1}{x})=\frac{\pi}{2}[/itex]? Your expressions are in fact consistent :P The potential function [itex]\arctan(x)+C[/itex] works fine.
 
* I mean the potential function [itex]\phi(x, y)=\arctan(\frac{y}{x})+C[/itex].
 
Hi identity1,
Thanks for your reply.
Some things still I don't understand.
That equation [itex]\arctan(x) + \arctan(\frac{1}{x}) = \frac{\pi}{2}[/itex] seems to work only for positive real values of x, since for example
[itex]\arctan(-2) + \arctan(\frac{-1}{2}) = \frac{-\pi}{2}[/itex]

Say, for example, I want to calculate the circulation of [itex]f[/itex] with domain [itex]D_2[/itex] from a curve that starts at [itex]A = (-1,1)[/itex] and ends at [itex]B=(1,1)[/itex]

If I use [itex]\phi_1(x,y) = -\arctan(\frac{x}{y}) + C[/itex]
[itex]\phi_1(B) - \phi_1(A) = \frac{\pi}{4} + \frac{\pi}{4} = \frac{\pi}{2}[/itex]

Instead if I use [itex]\phi_2(x,y) = \arctan(\frac{y}{x}) + C[/itex]
[itex]\phi_2(B) - \phi_2(A) = -\frac{\pi}{4} - \frac{\pi}{4} = \frac{-\pi}{2}[/itex]

So it changes the sign for the same curve oriented in the same direction from A to B.

Something seems to be wrong, the sign shouldn't change, doesn't it?
Thanks.
 

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