Consider a transformer with winding ratio of 1 : 10

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a transformer with a winding ratio of 1:10 when an AC voltage of 120V is applied to the primary winding and a DC voltage of 120V from a battery is applied to the secondary winding, either in series or parallel. Participants explore the implications of this setup, including potential damage and operational characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that connecting a battery to the transformer secondary will likely result in damage, with one stating it will "blow up."
  • There is a suggestion that connecting the battery in series with the secondary might be safer if the circuit has high impedance to limit current.
  • One participant questions the scenario by suggesting that if the transformer is designed to handle high current and voltage, it might withstand the conditions, but notes that DC current can cause core saturation.
  • Another participant discusses the potential for large DC currents to flow, which could lead to overheating and damage to the battery.
  • One post critiques the question as pointless, suggesting that without specific specifications for the transformer and battery, the discussion lacks practical value.
  • A participant mentions that if the AC input can supply unlimited power, a significant voltage would be induced in the secondary, leading to high AC currents that could damage the battery.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of ideal voltage sources and discusses the technical characteristics of voltage sources in relation to overcurrent conditions.
  • One post references older commercial battery chargers that used a similar principle, indicating that transformers can be designed to handle specific conditions, though modern designs are more efficient.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that connecting a battery to the transformer secondary poses risks of damage, but there is no consensus on the specifics of how the transformer and battery would interact under different configurations. Multiple competing views remain regarding the safety and operational characteristics of the setup.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific transformer and battery specifications, which affects the ability to predict outcomes accurately. The discussion also highlights assumptions about the capabilities of the transformer and the nature of the connections.

Curious007
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Just out of curiosity : Consider a transformer with winding ratio of 1 : 10.

What happens when AC 120 v is applied on primary and on secondary we apply DC voltage of 120 v from a battery source is series or in parallel? What will be the output in both cases?
 
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It's going to blow up.
 


what said:
It's going to blow up.

Well, certainly putting any battery in parallel with a transformer secondary sounds like a recipe for trouble. Typically large DC and AC currents would flow, and probably both transformer and battery would be destroyed. This is not something you should try at home.

The battery might more safely be put in series with the secondary, as long as anything completing the circuit had sufficiently high impedance / resistance to restrict the current to a safe level.
 


what said:
It's going to blow up.

What if the secondary of that transformer is designed to withstand against the very very High Current and Voltage?
 


Curious007 said:
What if the secondary of that transformer is designed to withstand against the very very High Current and Voltage?

I suppose that's possible, e.g. in the case of a transformer with very large current ratings relative to the battery short-circuit current. Transformers can be quite intolerant of DC current though, as it tends to cause core saturation.

However, in the case of a huge transformer and small battery the transformer might survive, but the battery would pass a large DC current due to its own voltage, limited only by its own internal resistance and that of the secondary winding. There would also be an AC current, perhaps about ten times as big from the figures you quoted.

The battery could be expected to heat up rapidly, generate gas internally, and probably boil its electrolyte. Actually I think the last poster summed it up pretty well. DO NOT TRY THIS.
 


This sounds a pointless question. It's yet another "What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" question. If you were to state the specs of the transformer and the battery then it might be possible to tell which will die first but to what end?
There are so many ways of constructing a smoke-making machine which are more convenient. Try a bonfire in the back garden.
 


Assuming the input AC can supply unlimited power, 1200V AC will be induced in the secondary coil.

There is no standalone 120V battery. Such voltage would have to be built up from many battery cells in series, and each having its own internal resistance. So let's assume the total internal resistance adds up to 10 ohms. To AC voltage, the impedance of the battery appears as a short having only internal resistance.

So the AC current through the battery would be approximately 1200V/10 ohms = 120 Amps AC

It would destroy the cells well before delivering 120V DC.
 


Regardless some mentioned quantity, conceptually if transformer has enough capability for withstanding of over current and over voltage (without any saturation), the problem can be simplified to connection of (parallel or series) two ideal ac and dc voltage source. In practical view it is related to voltage sources technical characteristics and their ability for over current withstanding.

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Creative thinking is enjoyable, Then think about your surrounding things and other thought products. http://electrical-riddles.com
 


I have seen some larger commercial battery chargers (old designs) which incorporate a heavy-gauge DC series winding from the output, into the main transformer. The idea was that as the charger's DC current approached the charger's design current limit, the transformer iron was deliberately saturated, and provided a magnetic voltage regulator of sorts.
Modern electronic chargers are much better.
 

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