Continuous eigenstates vs discrete eigenstates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of continuous and discrete eigenstates in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the scalar product between these two types of eigenstates. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical definitions, and the orthogonality of states within different Hilbert spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that eigenvectors of discrete eigenvalues are orthogonal in the "Kronecker sense," while those of continuous eigenvalues are orthogonal in the "Dirac sense." They question the scalar product between continuous and discrete eigenstates.
  • One participant claims there is no real scalar product in the space where continuous eigenstates exist, suggesting that the scalar product between a continuous eigenstate and a discrete eigenstate is zero.
  • Another participant argues that while the mathematical expression for the scalar product can be made rigorous, it does not define a scalar product in the traditional sense.
  • Some participants discuss the physical Hilbert space as a direct sum of spaces spanned by bound and scattering states, with claims about the orthogonality of superpositions of these states.
  • There is a contention regarding the nature of pure scattering states, with one participant stating that they do not reside in the original Hilbert space but in an extension of its dual space.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the concept of eigenvectors corresponding to continuous eigenvalues, referencing the spectral theorem for noncompact operators.
  • One participant mentions that eigenstates for the continuum are well-defined in the context of rigged Hilbert spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and nature of scalar products between continuous and discrete eigenstates. There is no consensus on whether such scalar products can be defined or what their implications are.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the mathematical framework surrounding continuous eigenstates and the implications of different Hilbert spaces. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with advanced quantum mechanics concepts.

  • #31


giova7_89 said:
I wrote a short .pdf with my calculations [...]

In your eq(4), you haven't allowed for the possibility that perhaps

<br /> \langle n | V | E \rangle ~\ne~ 0 ~.<br />

I.e., you've assumed that the interaction V does not mix the discrete
and continuous subspaces of the total (rigged) Hilbert space. Hence
you get a null result.

Try a simple specific potential (e.g., Morse, as Arnold Neumaier suggested),
which has an exactly solvable discrete and continuous spectrum.
 
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  • #32


This has already been resolved for the OP, I think, but I thought I would give another reference since it always helps to see multiple angles.

Here from Dirac's Principles of Quantum Mechanics page 65, he lays out three specific rules for discrete and continuous eigenvalues.

"Using \xi^r and \xi^s to denote discrete eigenvalues and \xi&#039; and \xi&#039;&#039; to denotes continuous eigenvalues, we have the set of equations

\langle\xi^r|\xi^s\rangle=\delta_{\xi^r\xi^s}

\langle\xi^r|\xi&#039;\rangle=0

\langle\xi&#039;|\xi&#039;&#039;\rangle=\delta(\xi&#039;-\xi&#039;&#039;)

as the generalizations of

\langle\xi&#039;|\xi&#039;&#039;\rangle=\delta_{\xi&#039;\xi&#039;&#039;}

and

\langle\xi&#039;|\xi&#039;&#039;\rangle=\delta(\xi&#039;-\xi&#039;&#039;).

These equations express that the basic vectors are all orthogonal, that those belonging to discrete eigenvalues are normalized and those belonging to continuous eigenvalues have their lengths fixed..."

Hope this helps in some way. :smile:
 
  • #33


Thank you strangerep I realized my mistake! When I used the resolution of the identity on the right and on the left I forgot, as you say, to take into account the "mixing" between discrete and continuous eigenstates. Now my problem is solved!
 
  • #34


A. Neumaier said:
I don't understand. Gamov vectors do not correspond to the real portion of the spectrum, so why should they _not_ be missing?

Depends on your goal. Normally, they don't occur, except for when you search for them specifically. For that, you need to <relax> a little the topology, the Hamiltonian becomes symmetric and that way its spectrum can be complex.
 
  • #35


dextercioby said:
Depends on your goal. Normally, they don't occur, except for when you search for them specifically. For that, you need to <relax> a little the topology, the Hamiltonian becomes symmetric and that way its spectrum can be complex.

But you assumed in
if one is interested in finding only the real portion of the observables' spectra by making a so-called <tight rigging> of the H-space, he could miss the existence of Gamov vectors
that one is interested only in the real portion. Because of this assumption, one _should_ miss the complex spectrum in the deformation!

Unless you also relax your interest...
 

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