Continuous linear transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the continuity of a linear transformation T from R^m to R^n. Participants explore various approaches, including the use of norms, Lipschitz continuity, and the definition of continuity in terms of limits and epsilon-delta arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims to have shown that there exists a positive real number C such that |T(x)| <= C|x|, seeking guidance on the next steps.
  • Another participant questions the method used to establish the inequality and suggests working directly with the definition of continuity.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of certain inequalities used in the proof, particularly regarding the relationship between sums of absolute values and norms.
  • A participant proposes that if T is Lipschitz continuous, then it is uniformly continuous, and discusses the implications of this property.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definitions of AM (arithmetic mean) and RMS (root mean square) in the context of inequalities.
  • Several participants engage in correcting and refining each other's mathematical expressions and reasoning throughout the discussion.
  • One participant acknowledges a mistake in their earlier reasoning and adjusts their claims accordingly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the best approach to proving continuity, with multiple competing views and methods being discussed. Participants express uncertainty about specific inequalities and their implications for the proof.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved mathematical steps and dependence on the validity of certain inequalities. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding regarding Lipschitz continuity and its relationship to continuity.

Andy_ToK
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T is a linear transformation from R^m->R^n, prove that T is continuous.

I have proved that there's always a positive real number C that |T(x)|<=C|x|. How shall I proceed then?
Thanks~
 
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May I ask how you have shown that?
 
x is an element of R^m
|T(x)|=|sum_i(xi*T(ei))|<=sum_i{xi(|T(ei)|)}
let A=max{|T(e1)|,|T(e2)|...|T(em)|)
then |T(x)|<=A*sum_i(xi)<A/sqrt(m)*sqrt(sum_i(xi^2))=A/sqrt(m)*|x| (AM<RMS)

sorry, i don't know how to use latex here:frown:
 
1) You forgot an absolute value sign around xi in line 2:

|T(x)|=|sum_i(xi*T(ei))|<=sum_i{|xi|(|T(ei)|)}

2) How did you get

sum_i|xi|<[1/sqrt(m)]*sqrt(sum_i(xi^2)) ?

Surely this is not true. Take for instance the case when all but one of the x_i are non-vanishing. The inequality becomes

|xi|<[1/sqrt(m)]*|xi| <==> sqrt(m)<1You had good ideas in your attempt but I suggest working directly with the definition of continuity. Given e>0 and x0 , try to find a d>0 such that |x-x0|<d ==> |T(x)-T(x0)|<e.
 
Last edited:
Well, can you show that it is Lipschitz?
 
quasar987 said:
1) You forgot an absolute value sign around xi in line 2:

|T(x)|=|sum_i(xi*T(ei))|<=sum_i{|xi|(|T(ei)|)}

2) How did you get

sum_i|xi|<[1/sqrt(m)]*sqrt(sum_i(xi^2)) ?

Surely this is not true. Take for instance the case when all but one of the x_i are non-vanishing. The inequality becomes

|xi|<[1/sqrt(m)]*|xi| <==> sqrt(m)<1


You had good ideas in your attempt but I suggest working directly with the definition of continuity. Given e>0 and x0 , try to find a d>0 such that |x-x0|<d ==> |T(x)-T(x0)|<e.
1.Thanks for pointing that out, it should be the absolute value.:smile:
2.sorry i made a mistake there, it should be
sum_i|xi|<sqrt(m)*sqrt(sum_i(xi^2)) by AM<RMS
 
Here is the standard way of doing it:

For any linear transformation we define the norm of it as [itex]||T||=\sup_{|x|<1}|T(x)|[/itex]. Your arguments show that this norm always exists for any linear map.

Then we have [itex]|T(x-y)|\le||T|||x-y|[/itex]. Therefore [itex]T[/itex] is Lipschitz, hence uniformly continuous. If you don't know anything about Lipschitz and uniform continuity you can just let [itex]|x-y|<\epsilon/||T||[/itex] and we have our desired result.
 
Andy_ToK said:
1.Thanks for pointing that out, it should be the absolute value.:smile:
2.sorry i made a mistake there, it should be
sum_i|xi|<sqrt(m)*sqrt(sum_i(xi^2)) by AM<RMS

Oh, ok. I did not know this inequality, but it is true as long as you change that < for a <=, because obviously for m=1, we have an equality. What does AM and RMS stand for?

What you've proven in showing |T(x)|<=C|x| is that T is Lipschitz continuous at 0. Usually, we say that a function f is Lipschitz at x0 if there exists numbers c and M such that |x-x0|<c ==> |f(x)-f(x0)| [itex]\leq[/itex] M|x-x0|. A function that is Lipschitz is necessarily continuous because given e>0, choose d=min{c,e/M}.

So, can you extend your result and show that T is Lipschitz everywhere?
 
Last edited:
ZioX said:
Then we have [itex]|T(x-y)|\leq ||T|||x-y|[/itex].

Shouldn't there be a sqrt{m} also on the RHS as in Andy's AM<RMS?
 
  • #10
quasar987 said:
Oh, ok. I did not know this inequality, but it is true as long as you change that < for a <=, because obviously for m=1, we have an equality. What does AM and RMS stand for?
oops, it should be <=, thanks.
AM=arithmetic mean
RMS=root mean square AM<=RMS (the equality holds when |x1|=|x2|...=|xm|)
 
  • #11
Thanks quasar987 and ZioX
I forgot to use T(x)-T(y)=T(x-y) for the linear transformation...
let d=e/C then, |x-y|<d --> |T(x)-T(y)|=|T(x-y)<cd=e
 
  • #12
quasar987 said:
Shouldn't there be a sqrt{m} also on the RHS as in Andy's AM<RMS?

I'll explain the logic a bit.

Define [itex]||T||=\sup_{|x|<1}|T(x)|[/itex].

Now the previous argument shows that there exists a C such that [itex]|T(x)| \le C|x|[/itex].

Now, if we restrict [itex]|x| < 1[/itex] we get [itex]|T(x)| \le C|x| < C[/itex] so that |T(x)| has an upper bound, hence a supremum.

Now, for continuity, it just becomes a matter of verifying that [itex]0 \le |T(x)-T(y)|=|T(x-y)|<\epsilon[/itex] whenever [itex]0 \le |x-y|< \min\{\epsilon / ||T||,1\}[/itex].
 

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